eatons carcano

NB.nagantsniper

CGN frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
362   0   0
Location
northern nb
i believe i have one of these.

i notice 1 for sale on the ee section...........mine looks 98% the same .

pistol grip on a cut down stock........it has a set screw under the barrel right near the action.

single trigger, same looking rear site.

i have no idea on its calibre .......were some kept in 6.5 carcano?

NOT SAFE to shoot ?
any info most welcomed.:canadaFlag:
 
There is nothing to suggest that they are not safe to shoot, except gun folklore based on hearsay and conjecture to that effect.

- there was never a recall put in effect by Eatons;
- there are undocumented stories from the 1930's that "people died and/or were seriously injured" when shooting an Eaton Carcano, and boxes of "special ammo" sold by Eatons for that specific gun whose existence somehow speaks to safety concerns; and
- the barrel is not held in place by a set screw, it is held in index by a set screw, but the barrel is threaded into place. If the barrel was held in place by a set screw (and it isn't), and the set screw did not hold, the barrel would I suppose, project itself a few feet and leave an embarrased shooter, not a mushroom cloud of shrapnel and body parts.

I have attempted to dispel concerns about the safety of the Eaton Carcano, but my inspection and testing of a representative example is not enough for many people. Should anyone be able to pony up some facts and proof, I am always open to changing my mind, but I've offered that before and not had a single bite.
 
I have a couple of rounds of the "special ammo" that was put out for these and have seen part- and full boxes of the stuff. FWIW, I can't tell it from Carcano ammo.

The folklore on these rifles is that they were chambered for 6.5x54 Mannlicher-Schoenauer. The M-S cartridge was develped for the Greek military in the period 1900 - 1903 and was almost a dead copy of the original carcano round, just a tad over 1 mm longer in the neck and with a standard-diameter bullet. The M-S ammo also develped a little over 100 ft/se LESS MV than the Carcano round.

Now we jump back to when I was young and stupid (I'm old and stupid now), at which time you could still buy that nice DOMINION 6.5 M-S ammo at the hardware store. This stuff would fit into most original Carcanos and it would fire. You got murderous recoil out of a Carbine and a fireball from here to October, but it did fire. Of course, the stuff was too LONG in the neck, so the neck of the case was 'way up there in the leade when you pulled the trigger..... and that certainly was enough to raise pressures something fierce, being that you had to give the bolt-handle a good, hard smack or three to get it to close. Coming out was relatively easy, but going IN was hard. This problem disappeared compltely when some of that WESTERN CARTRIDGE COMPANY stuff hit the market: you know, the stuff that Oswald was said to be using. It worked just fine.

The Carcano is a true Mauser derivative. It is not a "push-feed" type and the extractor doesn't have to "snap over the rim" unless you're doing something wrong. Take a look at the photos of the bolt-face: the thing strips the round up from the clip and chambers it. The round is caught by the extractor as it rises from the clip, so there are no feed troubles unless you try to single-feed it...... just the same as any other Mauser.

Carcanos are as safe as any other military rifle, for my money, anyay. But then, I've only been shooting them for 48 years now. I have here rather a nice Eatons Carcano, a gun-auction purchase last Summer. I rather think it's just about time to give the old girl an afternon on the range.
.
 
Last edited:
I think a lot of the "lore" pertains to/results from tales of the Italian Veterellis' sleeved-barrels....:eek:......:redface:

Possibly - just being a Carcano is enough for many people. After Kennedy was shot, the Carcano was panned pretty hard by the media and that might have contributed to it, but the "Nothing made by Italians can be any good" opinion was good enough for most Americans.

As for the M1870/88/15 Vetterli, there's another example of many "tales", but no substance. There's the action, designed for something under 28K psi, and then there's the sleeved barrel. It seems that many people know someone who heard of a guy who knew someone that read something "reliable" about soldiers dying at the hands of one of these, as well as civilian shooters being injured or killed after they were surplused, and there are "several" reports of barrel sleeves exiting the barrel. I used to ask for details including pics, and you guessed it...

I have one of those guns and have shot it, respecting the pressure limits for which it was designed, but I've heard others claim that they have happily shot 100's of rounds of standard pressure 6.5X52 in it with no ill effects. I don't intend to try it, but with the much smaller diameter round, bolt backthrust would be much less than for the original blackpowder round, and with so much more steel around the chamber for the smaller 6.5X52 than there was for the original 10.4x47R mm round, there's an extra margin of safety built in.

That's the way I see it. I'd happily be proven wrong, but I'll need more than a reference to a post somewhere on the Interweb.
 
And another point, Andy: the barrel-sleeves on the "70VV" are sweated into place. If you look very carefully on some rifles, you can actually see a thin film of solder holding the thing in place. Let's assume that they used a cheap lead solder with a tensile strength of about 45000 psi. That's a LOT of square inches at 45K each and every one, holding that sleeve solid. If they used silver-based solder, this can up to 90k per square inch.

I wonder if anybody has ever removed one of the sleeves from a Vetterli. It would be most interesting to see the actual SHAPE of the thing. I'm quite willing to bet that it is not a 100%-straight tube.

Time to get out the internal calipres and the mike, I guess. I have 2 of them here which can be measured. I'll come back on later with breech and muzzle measurements of the sleeve, just add a little more fuel to the fires.

Yes, the media DID slag the Carcanos pretty badly after the Kennedy thing. It was bad enough before the JFK shooting, the Americans judging everything by the FINISH. It was well-known, of course, that there was NOTHING in the WORLD to match an M1903 Springfield (which holds over to this day, although I have a Ross and an SMLE which both have beaten a Springfield)..... and the Italian rifles, with all the money put into good steel, were a long way behind.... and they had beech stocks. Beechwood rifle stocks were junk until the American factories started using them, which is when the excellent properties of beechwood were discovered, very suddenly. To all of this must be added the wartime propaganda element. World War Two is the first war in human history in which the propaganda has not stopped with the conclusion of the fighting. And, in a war, to boost the morale of your own troops, you MUST denigrate the enemy and everything he has, especially his equipment. Remember, you are giving men Sten Guns (at about $12 apiece) and expecting them to have confidence in the things..... when they know that The Other Guys are using much more impressive MP-40s.

But fit and finish were kings. The MG-42 was regarded as clear evidence that Germany was losing the war and knew it. The gun itself was proof: poor fit, lousy finish, stampings used instead of milled parts. It was a junk gun made out of sheer desperation. It could not POSSIBLY last in actual field service. Seems to me that some of those wartime '42s are still ripping out belt after belt.... and the gun itself is still in production.

I have written on this before, but I'll do it again. In 1915, the Carcano was that lightweight, low-recoiling, accurate long-range rifle used by our heroic Italian Allies in their desperate struggle against the evil Habsburgs and their Hun allies. In 1940 (after Mussolini sent Italian troops into Southern France), the Carcano became that useless, cruddy POS that those spaghetti-eating "Eyeties" were using: obviously inferior to anything on our side. Trouble is that only the POLITICS had changed, for the CARCANO itself was UNchanged.

We need to get AWAY from this legacy of WW2 propaganda and start looking at things as they ACTUALLY are. And the Carcano is a pretty decent rifle.

Hope some of this helps.
.
 
- Funny how 6.5x52 is 'obsolete' in the eyes of the gunrag writers, yet 6.5x51 and it's manifestations (.260, etc.) is 'big money'. Amazing the difference a silly milimeter and a marketing campaign can bring.

- Notwithstanding the various tweakings of cartridge case dimensions, I suspect 6.5x52 with loads worked up in a modern action and a good barrel would rival the newcomers.

- Everything old is new again.
 
- Funny how 6.5x52 is 'obsolete' in the eyes of the gunrag writers, yet 6.5x51 and it's manifestations (.260, etc.) is 'big money'. Amazing the difference a silly milimeter and a marketing campaign can bring.

- Notwithstanding the various tweakings of cartridge case dimensions, I suspect 6.5x52 with loads worked up in a modern action and a good barrel would rival the newcomers.

- Everything old is new again.

Don't forget that the Ross, the Garand and the EM-2 rifle all had original chamberings just above .260....;)
 
Back
Top Bottom