Educate me on enfield revolvers

Dyspnea

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I'm looking at expanding my milsurp collection. I handled a nice enfield revolver matching with lanyard ring a few day ago but it sold for too much (in my opinion)

I just would like some advise on picking a nice one. Did they all have lanyard rings or is it they were just mostly all cut off post war.

Not a lot on info I could find on them.
 
I have two and both have the lanyard rings. I've read Skennerton's book on the revolver and do not recall seeing anything about the lanyard rings being officially removed. I would pass by the ones missing them, unless the price is right.

I think they are neat little guns, and a great affordable starter to a milsurp pistol collection.
 
I've seen non lanyard pistol for 250-300, what is a reasonably price for a matching with ring?

I really want one "as issued" but for the right price I might settle for a shooter
 
I have a 4" in 38 S&W. I think it is a Mk VI. Lanyard ring removed and marked MTP on bottom of grip frame. Metro Toronto Police ??. Nice little gun.
 
New Zealand sold off a lot of 38S&W and 455 webley and enfield revolvers. These guns had pot metal sights that snapped on and the lanyard rings were removed to become sporting guns, so that they could be exported to Canada. Everyone of them was exc/mint and true military pistols in every regard. lanyard rings can be replaced as it is a small item. The pot metal sight just snapped off with no effort at all.
 
I've seen non lanyard pistol for 250-300, what is a reasonably price for a matching with ring?

I really want one "as issued" but for the right price I might settle for a shooter

I got my 1941 No2 MkI* for $100, and my 1933 No2 MkI (no star) for $150. Both are in great shape, and I think I got a hell of a deal.

I havent seen any non-matching Enfield revolvers.
 
If you can't find information on the various Enfield revolvers, either you are trying in the wrong place or not hard enough. There even have been several long and informative threads on them right here, but you have to use the SEARCH function.

That said, which Enfield revolver are you interested in? There ARE several different ones.

The original Enfield revolver was a break-open heavy .476 in which the cylinder moved forward, away from the fired empties, when the revolver was broken fore reload. It was the standrd pistol of the British Army back at the time of the Zulu Wars and saw considerable service all over the British Empire, then a quarter of the world. Many were used HERE by the Department of Militia and Defence and they were the original service revolver of the North West Mounted Police. They were somewhat fragile and today they are RARE and EXPENSIVE.

There was an Enfield Mark VI revolver manufactured in the 1920s which was 100% interchangeable with the Webley Mark VI in .455 calibre. It was an illegal, unlicensed COPY of the Webley, made by the Government at a time when they could steal from the Merchants of Death (the popular press's bogeyman of the 1920s) and get away with it in public opinion. Today these are rare and very nearly unknown to collectors (because they are perfect copies of a well-known pistol) although there actually are a few around.

THEN there was ANOTHER Enfield revover, this the one that most people think of, a top-break chambered in .380/200 (the old .38 S&W casing with a 200- or later 178-grain bullet). The actual design work on this gun was done mostly by Webley & Scott at the REQUEST of the Government. The Test gun passed with flying colours , the Government ADOPTED it..... and Webley & Scott awaited their contract.... which never arrived. Finally, they were told politely to go p*ss off, the Gummint was making this one, thanks for doing our design work for us, suckers, and that was the end of it. Webley & Scott sued in Court, but the Courts are owned by the Gummint: they wewre awarded HALF the actual cash-money costs which they could PROVE, nothing for technical expertise and zro for the contract which they didn't get..... which had been promised. They were TICKED.

Needless to say, the finished gun shows its parentage, looking very like a small-frame Webley Mark IV with a removable sideplate, which is exactly what it is. This was the Number 2 Pistol.

Originally it was the Number 2 Mark 1 and was a quality job, single- and double-action WITH a hammer spur for cocking. MOST of these were converted to Number 2 Mark 1* before War Two even started. They are more than a bit scarce today but still may be found occasionally. I have owned 2 over the years, one of which was a 1931 with RAF markings.

Number 2 Mark 1* was the same gun but double-action only and with the hammer-spur bobbed. These are the vast majority of production. They are erroneously called the "Tanker" or "Commando" model but in fact were general issue for truckers, pilots, airmen, tank crews....... and Infantrymen who needed a pistol.

And there was the Number 2 Mark 1**, a somewhat dangerous wartime expedient which lacked a BLOCK on the hammer rebound; it could fire if it was dropped. These were called back in as quickly and possible and modded backwards to Mark 1* specs but they still have the Mark 1** marked on them. When they were surplused, every gun was examined and modded as necessary. Unmodded Mark 1** guns are very scarce. Personally, I have seen ONE; it was in the Pattern Room. OTOH, I do have one which has been modded and still is marked as Mark 1**.

Generally, they were built with 5-inch barrels and thus avoid the PROHIB designation in our Not-Very-Free Country.

Manufacture mostly was at Enfield and you can see the quality go downhill if you have a relatively-complete set of the guns. There are at least 3 variants in the grips and finish ranges from supeb on the pre-War guns to crude on the late-1942s, improving perhaps a bit on the 1943s. They were also made by Albion Motor Products and this variant is scarce but still can be fond. There was a THIRD manufacturer in Australia which made a VERY small number, possibly under 100, and the gun was copied by the Viet Minh in Saigon before they renamed themselves the Viet Cong: ONE specimen is known for certain.

The design was time-consuming to produce and time was at a premium early in War Two in England. HUGE amounts of "warlike stores" had been surplussed, given away and just, plain destroyed in the 1920s and early-to-mid 1930s, even as late as 1937. When War Two started in 1939, the British Army was not starting from its 1918 position; thanks to POLITICIANS who thought that if Britain destroyed its weapons, that nice Mister Hitler would do likewise. Hitler was a lot smarter than that. The British Army's position as regards equipment n 1939 was more like that of 1909. In 1940, thankfully Monty pulled off a minor miracle (his Division was supposed to be a sacrifice to allow the rest of the Army to escape) and the Canadians still had guns: they were the bulk of the forces available to repulse Sea Lion if it had come as expected in late 1940. Webley & Scott finally were given a contract to make pistols in War 2 but did not make the Enfield because hey had never tooled for its production..... owing to Government duplicity. So W&S made their own design, the Mark IV, and they made every one the Government wanted and they made them as FAST as the Government wanted them.... and they stamped every one of them WAR FINISH....... just so nobody would think that Webley & Scott turned out work THAT BADLY FINISHED on a regular basis!

Ahhhh: REVENGE!

And they even got paid for the things!

Your War 2 Enfield collection will have in it 3 .380/200 Enfields, one by ALBION, one by that Aussie manufacturer if you can find one, a Mark VI .455 from the 1920s..... and a Webley Mark IV .38..... which is both the father and the son of the Enfield Revolver.

You are now educated. And my fingers hurt.

LOTS MORE information in THIS forum, gallons of photos, reams of information, but you have to use the SEARCH.
 
Thanks for the great info Smellie.

I have both a No.2 Mk1 and Mk1*. They shoot well but ammo is pricey. I think $150-200 for a nice one of either is a fair ballpark.
 
I am in need of a latch spring for an Enfield ,(the model Smellie called the so-called "Tanker" model). Would any of you fellows have a spare in your parts box's, or know where I can find one?
 
I have a few of these also, one is a grey colored RAF model. When I got them, they came with the ammo in little green boxes with rope handles. Which I still have along with grey canvas holsters.
 
@Adrian M:

Try HANDLOADING the stuff. MY ammo costs $3.50 a box if I BUY the slugs, $1.50 if I cast my own.

Use reasonably soft lead, get a mould for a .358 RIFLE: you can get them in 180 or 200-grain weight.

Good load for 158 SWC revolver slug is 2.1 (two-point-one) grains of Bullseye. It shoots very LOW (owing to absence of barrel-whip) but it groups nice.

LEE make .38S&W dies, too: cheap and they work.

MUCH better than trying to find 146s that shoot so low you can't find them on the target!

Cheaper, too! About $15 a box cheaper!

Try it; you'll like it!
 
@Adrian M:

Try HANDLOADING the stuff. MY ammo costs $3.50 a box if I BUY the slugs, $1.50 if I cast my own.

Use reasonably soft lead, get a mould for a .358 RIFLE: you can get them in 180 or 200-grain weight.

Good load for 158 SWC revolver slug is 2.1 (two-point-one) grains of Bullseye. It shoots very LOW (owing to absence of barrel-whip) but it groups nice.

LEE make .38S&W dies, too: cheap and they work.

MUCH better than trying to find 146s that shoot so low you can't find them on the target!

Cheaper, too! About $15 a box cheaper!

Try it; you'll like it!

Thanks smellie, I'm still not set up to reload. I know, pathetic. I promise it's gonna happen soon!

One question...is there a press I can buy that will load both rifle and pistol or do I need two presses? If that is the case I'll have to start with loading for rifles as I shoot them more.
 
@AdrianM and anyone else who isn't clear on this:

About 95% of the actual DIES on the market use a 7/8x14 thread and thus are interchangeable: rifle, pistol, makes no difference (you change the shellholder on the press to switch head sizes). The only ones that refuse to obey this general rule are a few dies still around for the really old Lyman models..... and the absolute MONSTERS such as 20x139, .50BMG, .55 Boys Rifle, .577 Snider and .577/.450 Martini-Henry. These you need special tooling for but, as long as you are shooting wimpy little things like the .50-110 Winchester Express, .500/450 Number 2 Nitro Express, .458 Lott and so forth, there are 7/8x14 dies available.

With a press, you have to make up your mind if you want to go BIGGER or not. RCBS makes the ROCKCHUCKER, Lee makes the CLASSIC CAST, Hornady and Lyman have heavy presses: these are good for the monsters (big enough hole and enough stroke) and can be used for regular little things (.303, 8x56R30M, 7.92x57, .30-'06, .297/.230 Morris) when you screw in the adaptor that they come equipped with and they are heavy enough constructed to do major case-forming: .50 BMG down to a 6mm for 4-mile varmint shooting, things like that.

But those all are single-stage machines: one step at a time. FINE for rifle because likely you care about how GOOD your ammo is. Not so great for machine-guns: they take a lot of time to load a few belts. Not so great for pistols, either because pistols like to eat it up.

For LOTS of ammo, you want a PROGRESSIVE machine (one which handles operations in succession and generally handles multiple casings at a time: Dillon 550 is a good example). LEE makes a little progressive which is calibre-dedicated but fast, Dillon makes a most versatile machine that spits out 500 an hour........ how much ammo do you need?

I started with a set of 8mm RCBS dies, back about 47 years ago, and a black C-H aluminum press. I know, they paint all their equipment red, but this is one of their OLD ones that they have forgotten about. RCBS always dates all their dies but mine are undated: again because they predate the "always". They both still work fine, as do the Krupp .303 dies I got shortly afterwards. For heavy work on minor case conversions, I bought an RCBS JR in 1977; it still works, as do the Herter and Lyman and Bonanza and Redding dies from that commercial-loading era. The EQUIPMENT will last forever with only minor care.

My personal ADVICE (should you be rash enough to ask for it) would be to start with single-stage equipment and get the BIGGEST press you can. BIG presses can handle SMALL dies, but not the other way around. This way you will be set up for anything just by switching dies and shellholders. But it's slow (60 rounds an hour). If you need the speed, go to a progressive...... and get the most SOLID one that you can afford (generally this will mean Dillon Precision, from the same people as make the Mini-Gun).

ALL of these companies have websites, so get googling! And add a couple to the list: Higginson Powders and Lee Factory Sales. Both can do you a lot of good. I believe Wolverine is the Dillon importer; they often have second-hand machines for sale as guys upgrade to faster machines (the RL-550 turns out "only" 500 rounds an hour; it's the "slow" model). And get a copy of THE BLUE PRESS at the local gun shop: Dillon advertising, great videos and yummy chix, all at once.

The PROCESS just reverses the firing of the cartridge: you shrink the case back to its original size, be sure it isn't too long, put in a fresh primer, dump in a charge, seat a slug and go shoot it off again. Rocket science it ain't.

Heck, even I can do it!
 
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Again, thanks smellie.

I've been thinking and talking about reloading since I joined this site last fall. I almost bought a press half a dozen times. I was never sure until now about what press I should get. I was never certain that one press would do all I want. I don't need speed. I want simplicity and good quality so I only ever have to buy one.

I think Dillon stuff is out of my price range, but a rockchucker might fit...soon.
 
I bought my entire Rockchucker kit at the R&D in Wiesbaden back in 1978, along with three sets of dies. I'm still using all of them, as well as the other two I bought meanwhile. Four of us shared a Dillon electric press back in the days when we shot a lot of IPSC and Police Pistol comps - I used to shoot around 500-800 rounds of .38Spec and 9mm Para a week back then.....the quality is total, as is the support from Mike and the team, but any of the red, orange or green presses these days seem to be good - even Lee have joined the cast-iron brigade.

In the end, it's up to you - RCBS is a great choice, as about a hundred thousand successful rounds off mine would testify.

tac
 
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