Educate me on vintage European scopes...

[Dark Alley Dan]

Hey, folks.

I've been looking around over at Intersurplus's scope collection and I see a lot there that I like very much. But much of it is a mystery to me. Brands I don't know in configurations I like and with reticles I REALLY like.

What can you tell me about the quality of makes like Kahles, Pecar, and Wischo? They also have Weavers (steel-tube El Paso scopes, which I dig) and Zeiss (which I am familiar with, lust after, and cannot afford...)

Thanks for your wisdom.

Dan

 

[dan belisle]

Hey, folks.

I've been looking around over at Intersurplus's scope collection and I see a lot there that I like very much. But much of it is a mystery to me. Brands I don't know in configurations I like and with reticles I REALLY like.

What can you tell me about the quality of makes like Kahles, Pecar, and Wischo? They also have Weavers (steel-tube El Paso scopes, which I dig) and Zeiss (which I am familiar with, lust after, and cannot afford...)

Thanks for your wisdom.

Dan

I own Kahles, Pecar, Hensoldt, and Nikal (sp?). All good glass. About the same tube quality as the old Weavers, which is to say good. Adjustments vary from scope to scope, but so far, they've all stayed sighted in once done. Watch out for 26mm tubes on some of the older stuff. - dan

 

[Dark Alley Dan]

Thanks, Dan. They look good from this range, but I've only ever seen them in the flesh once, at the recent gun show. I'll watch out for 26mm tubes. Who thought that was a good idea?

 

[dan belisle]

Thanks, Dan. They look good from this range, but I've only ever seen them in the flesh once, at the recent gun show. I'll watch out for 26mm tubes. Who thought that was a good idea?

The Germans, mostly. But others followed suit. - dan

 

[dan belisle]

Thanks, Dan. They look good from this range, but I've only ever seen them in the flesh once, at the recent gun show. I'll watch out for 26mm tubes. Who thought that was a good idea?

Incidentally, there is an old scope and sights books that was published some years back. Lots of interesting info found in it. I have a copy, though mine is somewhat moisture damaged from storage in a garage. We'll worth a read if you can find one. - dan

 

[Dark Alley Dan]

I'd like that. Can you recall the title?

 

[Dosing]

Many of the ones I saw they had for sale are old, and I mean in some cases 60s/70s old. The S&B, kahles and zeiss were the top of the optics tech line at the time. Glass on all of them is decent, but there are some odd elements on older european scopes, like adjustments, tube size, etc. some of the older ones are also no longer supported by some brands, so no repairs or spares etc.
I asked them last year if they would sell some scopes off of rifles they had for sale, guess this is a bonus to them, but their prices seem high.
I would want a good look before buying a 30+ year old scope.

 

[Backcountryal]

I've had a few Pecar's but slowly sold them off in favour of Kahles. Some of the older ones are reticule moving, which isnt an issue with adjustable rings like Conetrol's etc. I find the Kahles exceptionally rugged, they were favoured by the NZ cullers in the 50's throught to the 80's. The glass is usually exceptional on the Kahles and still is. 26mm tube scopes can be fitted in to the 25.4mm Burris rings with the inserts, and the the older reticule moving ones can be centred using the adjustable inserts. I still favour Kahles in the modern scopes, both in 1" and 30mm. The other scopes that I like are the older Zeiss Duralyt. Theyre generally not as old as the Kahles but have great glass and are rugged......unlike the latest Zeiss offerings.
Usually the older European scopes are 1cm @ 100 metres, mil. No issues with that. But many dial the opposite way to the US offerings, easy to detect if youre not sure, when sighting in.

 

[Backcountryal]

I own Kahles, Pecar, Hensoldt, and Nikal (sp?). All good glass. About the same tube quality as the old Weavers, which is to say good. Adjustments vary from scope to scope, but so far, they've all stayed sighted in once done. Watch out for 26mm tubes on some of the older stuff. - dan

Nickel from memory, also good rugged scopes.

 

[dan belisle]

I'd like that. Can you recall the title?

Nick Stroebal was the author. I don't recall the exact title, and don't have mine handy (in storage). But you should be able to find a copy with the author's name. - dan

 

[Dark Alley Dan]

Thanks as always, Dan.

"Old Gunsights And Rifle Scopes: Identification and Price Guide". Currently out of print, but copies on ABE Books and similar. Cool!

 

[Mr Bill]

The 26mm tubes on the S&B scopes were steel and suitable as such to have the rings soldered directly to them to facilitate a quick detach mounting system. The tube was strong enough to handle the torque of being twisted on and off. I had a machinist ‘open up’ 1” Redfield type rings and latter utilized 30mm rings with specific plastic inserts to reduce to the 26mm diameter. A slight PIA also with the ‘backward’ turret adjustments but at the end of the day the low light performance was worth it with the exceptional glass and coatings.

 

[bearhunter]

Pecars were used by British Police on their 7.62x51 Lee Enfield, Enforcer type sniper rifles

To spotlight the Enfield Enforcer specifically:

Approximately 700 of these rifles were produced in total, not many considering today’s world; a commercial “commemorative” type rifle is usually produced in 1000 rifle numbers. The Enforcer chambered in 7.62mm NATO came standard with:

1) A “Matchmaker” front tube sight,
2) Parker-Hale adjustable twin zero rear competition sight,
3) Free-floated heavy barrel,
4) Shortened (sporter style) fore-end with handguard and Monte Carlo butt,
5) A PICAR 4-10X45 scope mounted on Parker-Hale pads and
6) Upon request of the individual sniper, it could be fitted with a Bi-pod.

All Enfield Enforcer’s were built using new Mk2 actions (trigger hung from the receiver versus turned from the trigger guard), and all were stocked with new beechwood furniture. In keeping with traditional