effect of a shorter barrel

[marlin60]

I've seen the fps ballistics for the longer barrels (28" appears optimum, even better than 30" and +).

But what about the shorter barrels, say down to 18" even.

What effect would it have on patterning?

Would using a full or extra full choke help make up for the short length, or does it work like that?

I shot some 000 and 00 from my 30" Beretta, and at 25yds it was WIDE open. Can't imagine defense shotguns being any good beyond 10 yds.

 

[Jay]

With removeable choke tubes... My guess is that they would be just fine past 10yards... I used to have the Browning BPS with the 21 inch barrel, I think it was 21 inches if memory serves me correctly... I used it for ducks and upland, all with an improved cylinder choke... Steel for ducks of course, which patterned like modified with the improved choke...

Cheers
Jay

 

[Rudy H]

I've seen the fps ballistics for the longer barrels (28" appears optimum, even better than 30" and +).

But what about the shorter barrels, say down to 18" even.

What effect would it have on patterning?

Would using a full or extra full choke help make up for the short length, or does it work like that?

I shot some 000 and 00 from my 30" Beretta, and at 25yds it was WIDE open. Can't imagine defense shotguns being any good beyond 10 yds.

I use a 18" double barrel for cowboy action shooting. Was longer but I cut it down. We had some stages where a smaller target was placed in front of a larger target. We had to shoot the larger target but not hit the front target. I was surprised we were able to avoid the front target. Sure we didn't shoot at 25 yards but why would you use a shotgun for accurate shooting at 25 yards? (18" no choke) It is called a scattergun for a reason.

 

[prosper]

I've seen the fps ballistics for the longer barrels (28" appears optimum, even better than 30" and +).

Curious where you got these numbers? Rifles - which burn a lot more powder, and slower powder to boot - start getting into an area of diminishing returns after 22"-24." Given the smaller amount of much faster powder and the bigger bore, I'd expect that longer barrels in a shotgun really gain very little. I'd always thought that it was more to do with a longer sighting plane than anything else.

I'd be really interested to see a test between an 18" shotgun vs a 28" one with the same chokes.

 

[Claybuster]

All else being equal there is no difference in patterning between a long and short barrel. Choke, shot hardness and velocity are the primary determinants of pattern. As noted previously, shotguns use fast burning powder compared to rifles and there is no velocity advantage to longer barrels.

Longer barrels give you a longer sighting plan and generally more momentum in your swing which is good for shooting flying targets. I shoot a 32" o/u and a 30" semi-auto and I perceive less lead than with my shorter guns when I'm shooting a sustained lead target.

Through a cylinder choke buckshot does pretty much suck at 25 yards. On the rare occasions that I shoot buckshot I do so through a modified choke. It patterns acceptably at 25 yards but not much further.

 

[cantom]

Curious where you got these numbers? Rifles - which burn a lot more powder, and slower powder to boot - start getting into an area of diminishing returns after 22"-24." Given the smaller amount of much faster powder and the bigger bore, I'd expect that longer barrels in a shotgun really gain very little. I'd always thought that it was more to do with a longer sighting plane than anything else.

I'd be really interested to see a test between an 18" shotgun vs a 28" one with the same chokes.

I used my 14" bbl 870 in a match, and found to my surprise that I didn't appear to be giving anything up pattern wise...it's not like I was trying to hit geese 100 yards away or something. It worked pretty well.

 

[prosper]

All else being equal there is no difference in patterning between a long and short barrel. Choke, shot hardness and velocity are the primary determinants of pattern. As noted previously, shotguns use fast burning powder compared to rifles and there is no velocity advantage to longer barrels.

Longer barrels give you a longer sighting plan and generally more momentum in your swing which is good for shooting flying targets. I shoot a 32" o/u and a 30" semi-auto and I perceive less lead than with my shorter guns when I'm shooting a sustained lead target.

Through a cylinder choke buckshot does pretty much suck at 25 yards. On the rare occasions that I shoot buckshot I do so through a modified choke. It patterns acceptably at 25 yards but not much further.

Yes, this was my understanding as well. And given that I hardly ever shoot shotguns and haven't formed any habits/preferences, I thought I'd get an 18.5" model or so (with interchangeable chokes, if such a thing exists) and a red dot to annoy the stodgy traditionalists at the range

 

[marlin60]

Am I allowed to post a link to informative website (not sales). There is some good general/basic info here on a variety of shot gun topics.

dubya dubya dubya
.guncustomizing.com/tech.htm#barrelvelocity

Curious where you got these numbers? Rifles - which burn a lot more powder, and slower powder to boot - start getting into an area of diminishing returns after 22"-24." Given the smaller amount of much faster powder and the bigger bore, I'd expect that longer barrels in a shotgun really gain very little. I'd always thought that it was more to do with a longer sighting plane than anything else.

I'd be really interested to see a test between an 18" shotgun vs a 28" one with the same chokes.

 

[Calum]

My only issue with the short barrel so far as mentioned above, is the sight plane...which I fixed with a cheap red dot sight.

Mind you a tighter pattern then cylinder bore would be nicer.

Sadly I was borrowing the scope/sight mount, and had to give it back...need to find another.

 

[Claybuster]

Am I allowed to post a link to informative website (not sales). There is some good general/basic info here on a variety of shot gun topics.

dubya dubya dubya
.guncustomizing.com/tech.htm#barrelvelocity

I don't know this Willbanks guy but when in doubt about such matters it always pays to refer to Bob Brister, author of Shotgunning, The Art and Science. It is a book no shotgun crank should be without.

The loads tested on this site are heavy turkey loads and Brister agrees that with the heaviest loads there is an advantage to longer barrels. But in reading the chart from the website it notes that the higher velocities came with the turkey choke. Brister notes that velocities are higher with tighter chokes. The other reference on the chart is to manufacturers velocities which are also often over stated. When you take out the data that used the turkey choke and the manufacturers velocity there would appear to be some advantage with longer barrels but only with the heaviest loads and really not all that much. We also don't know what choke he was using or if there were different guns used. This is when the phrase "all things being equal" becomes important.

What limited chrony work I've done has show there was no significant difference in between 20" and 30". The gun was a Remington 870 with two barrels using a modifed choke tube in each but I was not testing heavy turkey loads but lighter field and target shells.

 

[marlin60]

I've had a gun smith tell me all shot gun powder is burned by 18" or 20", so no difference down to that length, but I was getting a second opinion from you xpert nutz.

I have a 24" barrel for my Pintail. I think I'll take that in to the bush, and leave the 30" for trap.

 

[Waterfowler]

If you want tight, long range patterns for buckshot, get a Patternmaster choke.

 

[Calum]

If you want tight, long range patterns for buckshot, get a Patternmaster choke.

OK that's a pretty cool solution.

I guess I'd have to get my gunsmith to thread inside my shotguns barrel.