Effectiveness of 9mm used by Contractors in Iraq

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FN said:
Claven2 said:
Never forget, it is the Iraqi government who requests and gets these civilian companies to come in........
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Is this the Iragi govenment that is acceptable to the USA or the Iraqi government the people of Iraqi want?
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Don't know and don't care. ALOT of people hated Saddam, but he was the legitimate ruler of that country at the time and was recognized as the man in charge by even the countries workign to dethrone him.

The current government is in charge. Whether it is a truely representative government of the people and by the people or the puppet government of another country, they are in power and have domain over their own nation, including the ability to try and rebuild said country after a very messy war.

I think the average Iraqi would rather have the current gov't in power and the Americans back in America than to bring back Saddam and his secret police and torture factories ;)
 
Re: David Doyle

Canuck44 said:
While you or may not agree with the American presence in Iraq at least they have the balls to put it on the line. They also are prepared to support their military which is a hell of a lot more than Canadians are willing to do. At least the bunch located somewhere between Manitoba and Quebec!
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I think most Canadians support the idea of a properly equipped military in Canada, but most Canadians don't sit in Parliament and also want to see money spent on Health Care, Immigration, etc. depending on whatever issue reflects their ethic best.

For example, how many people here would like to see the gov't spend $2 billion dollars on a study to prove the ineffectiveness of the gun registry? ;) Now do you think that the people who want money for hte military and health care system give a sh!t about your "small" (in their view) issue?
 
Ontario keeps electing Liberals! IT is they who have run down our Military and developed this welfare state our country has become. MOst Canadians elect the idiots we have in Parliament so I deduce most Canadians want what we get and the Gun Registry and Bill C 68 is just but one example. Shotgun and rifle owners rolled over on the handgun crowd for years and really didn't get involved with the registration and regulation issues until they found out to late what Rock & Co were up to. Frankly I think they would do it again if they thought they could get their rifles and shotguns out of the registry.

I shoudn't get so uptight about Canadians in Ontario. Those born in this country are now the minority in that great province so I doubt much will change until Alberta decides to leave.
 
Canada has a "first past the post" electoral system. In a multiparty situation, rarely does the governing party ever gain anywhere near 50% of the popular vote. In most cases the winning candidate in each riding gains his/her seat with numbers in the mid 30s! That's why the Liberals were so successful in getting re-elected throughout the 90s. The PC and Reform Party, later Canadian Alliance split the conservative vote consistently, allowing the Lieberal candidate to win the seat. If we had a Proportional Representation system, there would be a far more equitable distribution of seats. Many european countries now use the later system.
 
Most Canadians know NOTHING about politics except that PM PM keeps putting ads on the Radio and TV telling them how scary Stephen Harper and his evil band of Conservative brigands are. They want to privatize the sacred healthcare and cut funding to the sacred multiculturalism funds that pay for all those pajama wearing ethnic broo-haahaa's you see at your local community center if you live in a city.

They also want to take away a woman's right to choose (say bye bye to 35% of eligible voters and like 80% of female voters right there!) and they also want to lower immigration numbers so half the residents of Montreal and Toronto won't be able to bring dear old Dad and Mum over from the ass end of backward no-where to claim welfare.

This is REALITY as most voters (read minority interest groups that make DAMN sure they vote) percieve the situation as. And what do the Conservatives do? They take the high road by only pointing out documented cases of LIEberal corruption and not dignifying the LIEberal slanderfest by responding to it. The take the high road... right out of the winner's circle where governments are formed :roll:

Yes, I know, I'm cynic.
 
Well in the next election the conserative vote won't be split so there should be no more excuses comming out of Ontario. Lets just get the bastards out!
 
I will refrain from further comment in the matter as obviously my earlier comments were perceived as anti-americanism, which lead to a thread hijack or sorts, for that I wish to apologize to "Dr Van".

For the record, my comments were of a personal opinion regarding the use of civilian PMC's in non-civilian tasks, regardless of their nationality, or the conflict for that matter. Also for the record, much of my extended family is American, with at least one of my faraway cousins either currently serving, or expecting to be serving in Iraq as a member of the U.S. military. Nuff said.
 
IMHO the 9 is a very capable defensive weapon intended only to fight your way back to your rifle (or a reload for it).

Problem is alot of guys expect the 9 to drop 'em like a mian battle rifle - apples and oranges.

Of course, YMMV, but a .45ACP hit to the arm won;t stop a bad guy any faster than a 9mm hit to said arm. Shot placement is paramount now, as always.
 
While this thread has appeared to vear WAY off course, I enjoyed the article! My good friend, ex SAS, has always told me his browning 9mm was his favorite handgun.
 
Took awhole but I now am in love with my HiPowers. When I get rid of the mag safeties I will enjoy then even more. Has anybody out there no where a guy can get a wider thumb safety? The factory safties are difficult to flip on and off.

Problem is I went out and bought a Trojan in 9MM and that platform is outstanding shooting the 9MM. Little to no felt recoil. Like it so much I bought a Norinco NP 29 for just busting rocks and blasting. With better sights and a trigger job it too could be fun in IDPA.

I also have a CZ85 but with the old style adjustable sights which really aren't much better than mil-spec. Unfortunately the cut in the slide makes it difficult to install any other design.

Stay Safe
 
Canuck44 said:
Took awhole but I now am in love with my HiPowers. When I get rid of the mag safeties I will enjoy then even more. Has anybody out there no where a guy can get a wider thumb safety? The factory safties are difficult to flip on and off.

Problem is I went out and bought a Trojan in 9MM and that platform is outstanding shooting the 9MM. Little to no felt recoil. Like it so much I bought a Norinco NP 29 for just busting rocks and blasting. With better sights and a trigger job it too could be fun in IDPA.

I also have a CZ85 but with the old style adjustable sights which really aren't much better than mil-spec. Unfortunately the cut in the slide makes it difficult to install any other design.

Stay Safe
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Have you tried a Beretta 92 yet? :twisted:
 
Claven2 said:
IMHO the 9 is a very capable defensive weapon intended only to fight your way back to your rifle (or a reload for it).

Problem is alot of guys expect the 9 to drop 'em like a mian battle rifle - apples and oranges.

Of course, YMMV, but a .45ACP hit to the arm won;t stop a bad guy any faster than a 9mm hit to said arm. Shot placement is paramount now, as always.
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The best defence is a good offence. Gun shots dont kill people, shock from being shot kills people. So make bigger holes.
 
Hi

All the talk about bullet diameter and bullet placement.........

I find it funny in U.S. gun magazines if a hunter needed 2 shots from his .458 win mag to put down the elephant, he things nothing of it. In fact he will brag, "he was so big I needed two shot to drop him."


Someone else will use a .380acp as a defence gun and if he needs more then one shot to put down a bad guy that weights 200+ lbs, he is pissed off at the little handgun????????

strange!

my 2 cents

Sticker
 
Canuck44 said:
Claven2 - Nope not yet. What are the pros and cons?
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As I see them:

Pros:
-Chrome lined barrel
-Points and balances well
-good grip angle
-serrated front strap and trigger guard aid in grip
-bevelled mag well
-HUGE ejection port increases ejection relibility
-CRAZILY tested by the US military and adopted by them as the M9.
-longish sight radius
-Ambi controls
-easy field stripping
-easy to maintain
-NOT plastic
-Comes in INOX or black oxide, used to come in rust blued slide black anodized frame.

Cons:
-some people feel you need big hands to shoot one well.
-Some variants have bette sight picture than others.
-some earlier models had durability problems in the locking block - corrected back in the 1980's when switched from 92F to 92FS.
-the new guns (since 2002-ish) have some small plastic parts, but you can change them out for steel easily.

Other than that, I can't think of any other cons. I really like my Beretta and I've tried "the rest" such as Glock, Sig, etc. Try one out - you might like it.
 
ottawaguy said:
Claven2 said:
IMHO the 9 is a very capable defensive weapon intended only to fight your way back to your rifle (or a reload for it).

Problem is alot of guys expect the 9 to drop 'em like a mian battle rifle - apples and oranges.

Of course, YMMV, but a .45ACP hit to the arm won;t stop a bad guy any faster than a 9mm hit to said arm. Shot placement is paramount now, as always.
Click to expand...

The best defence is a good offence. Gun shots dont kill people, shock from being shot kills people. So make bigger holes.
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Not as simple as that. 9mm guns generally hold 15+ rounds (in the free world), the ammo is lighter so you can carry more. .45 doesn't penetrate as deep as 9mm. Also, you don't have to kill the enemy 100% of the time, just take the fight out of him or make him duck his head till you retrieve your rifle which you never should have set down in the first place... :shock:
 
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