Elcan specter DR, how good are they?
- Thread starter Audet
- Start date
I average about 7 months on the No.3 red dot ( continual use ), that's not as good as my Aimpoints but still pretty impressive. the Arms throw levers are great, I have 6 Spectre DR's now and they all retain zero when the optic is removed from the firearm and replaced. they are in fact heavy but when you consider the weight of a red dot with a magnifier and BUIS, it makes sense.
the shift is minimal at worst. the Spectre DR should be zeroed at 100m on the 4X (or 6X if it's the 1.5-6X) and the 1X should be depended upon for CQB. basically, anything within that 100m perimeter will be off by a maximum of 1MOA. that's the difference of an inch or so, which is more than adequate for CQB. there is no zero shift when switching back to 4X.
NavyShooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- XMU Local .303
I had my Specter DR tested zero shift on an optical bench.
There was a tiny difference between 1X and 4X, I think it was measured at about 0.5 MOA.
If I'm shooting CQB distance (35m or less which is the distance the 1X is optically optimized) that 0.5 MOA shift results in an MPI shift of .167"....and at 35m or less, who is going to notice a POI shift that small?
I'm delighted with mine. Yes heavy, but much lighter than an Eotech plus magnifier.
NS
There was a tiny difference between 1X and 4X, I think it was measured at about 0.5 MOA.
If I'm shooting CQB distance (35m or less which is the distance the 1X is optically optimized) that 0.5 MOA shift results in an MPI shift of .167"....and at 35m or less, who is going to notice a POI shift that small?
I'm delighted with mine. Yes heavy, but much lighter than an Eotech plus magnifier.
NS
For range use they are good optics, Canadian too boot. 4 power not wonderful for 500 m although adequate for 200 lb targets. If you don't own a specter there are some Much better options, like a march 1-10. Nf 2.5-10. S&b 1-8. Uso 1.8-10. Premier reticle 1.1-8. All of these are better optics than the elcan and they provide more magnification and all are designed to do exactly what you are doing. 5ft out to 500 meters.
Navy Gunner
Regular
- Location
- Eastern Passage NS
Brad was that the one you got a deal on? I had one one too and I very pleased with it.
NavyShooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- XMU Local .303
NG, yup, that was the one I got a deal on.
It's return to zero, and 4X is fine for service rifle targets out to 500m. The optics/glass are great.
NS
It's return to zero, and 4X is fine for service rifle targets out to 500m. The optics/glass are great.
NS
I am interested in the Elcan, have been looking at them for sometime, but in weighing a XPS3 Eotech and the Magnifier FTS it is 599 grams combined. I read the Spectre DR 1-4 is 640 grams on some sites, others it says 660 grams etc...
which is heavier then the ET combo actually..
SO can any of you fellas that own this Spectre DR 1-4 please weigh this and let us know "ACTUAL" weight of this scope? Would be much appreciated as can not get 100% clear answer on this from websites out there, including elcans own site....
I'm considering one of these Elcans or a 4x32 Acog for another site to try on a 14.5 - 16" platform and kinda torn at moment, the short eye relief of the ACOG is abit nerving ...However by what the websites state the ACOG is also 300+ grams lighter, so it would be real nice to know the "REAL" weight, thanks!!!!
Weights were too much for my small, digital scale, but threw a couple of combos on the balance beam...
Elcan Spectre DR 1-4.....seems ~650 gm...give or take
Aimpoint T-1 + Aimpoint 3X magnifier in Larue mounts...~550gm or so
Falcon 1.5-6 + ADM mount...~750'ish...
Nightforce NSX 1-4 + Larue mount....~650'ish...
As you can see...not much in it in terms of weight difference...
Certainly nothing that would dissuade one from choosing any of these units.
Having done several carbine courses, as well as a couple of Service Rifle CQB matches, my personal preference is either:
- red dot...Aimpoint, Eotech...take your pick OR
- variable scope set at low magnification...i.e. 2X or so
These set ups prove superior to the red dot + magnifier combo.
If I though longer (100yards +) shots were going to be common, I would opt for a variable....end of story.
Fixed magnification...be it an ACOG, or red dot with 3X magnifier, just didn't cut it for speed of target acquisition or engaging multiple targets.
This is my personal experience, and my opinion only....
The only way you will know what's best for you is trial and error.
There is no 'best' set up......
Elcan Spectre DR 1-4.....seems ~650 gm...give or take
Aimpoint T-1 + Aimpoint 3X magnifier in Larue mounts...~550gm or so
Falcon 1.5-6 + ADM mount...~750'ish...
Nightforce NSX 1-4 + Larue mount....~650'ish...
As you can see...not much in it in terms of weight difference...
Certainly nothing that would dissuade one from choosing any of these units.
Having done several carbine courses, as well as a couple of Service Rifle CQB matches, my personal preference is either:
- red dot...Aimpoint, Eotech...take your pick OR
- variable scope set at low magnification...i.e. 2X or so
These set ups prove superior to the red dot + magnifier combo.
If I though longer (100yards +) shots were going to be common, I would opt for a variable....end of story.
Fixed magnification...be it an ACOG, or red dot with 3X magnifier, just didn't cut it for speed of target acquisition or engaging multiple targets.
This is my personal experience, and my opinion only....
The only way you will know what's best for you is trial and error.
There is no 'best' set up......
I am interested in the Elcan, have been looking at them for sometime, but in weighing a XPS3 Eotech and the Magnifier FTS it is 599 grams combined. I read the Spectre DR 1-4 is 640 grams on some sites, others it says 660 grams etc...
which is heavier then the ET combo actually..
SO can any of you fellas that own this Spectre DR 1-4 please weigh this and let us know "ACTUAL" weight of this scope? Would be much appreciated as can not get 100% clear answer on this from websites out there, including elcans own site....
I'm considering one of these Elcans or a 4x32 Acog for another site to try on a 14.5 - 16" platform and kinda torn at moment, the short eye relief of the ACOG is abit nerving ...However by what the websites state the ACOG is also 300+ grams lighter, so it would be real nice to know the "REAL" weight, thanks!!!!
Zero shifting...
I am looking at a picture I have and can't figure out how to attach it. IPSC cardboard body target with a slick looking AR15 with fancy new Elcan on the top rail.
Elcan spectre zeroed at 100m on 4x - nice little 10-shot group inside a 2.5 inch black patch.
Same paper, same shooter, same rifle 30 seconds later, same ammo. Rolled it back to lowest 1x power setting and planted a 10-shot group about twice the size of the first group about 8 inches high and off to the 1 o'clock direction . Two distinct groups from the same point of aim.
Gotta say I would have some confidence issues if my life depended on THAT. Seriously - zero at 100m and engage a bad guy at 300m with an 8 minute shift. I hope there's TWO bad guys beside one another and one's taller than the other.
POS.
I am looking at a picture I have and can't figure out how to attach it. IPSC cardboard body target with a slick looking AR15 with fancy new Elcan on the top rail.
Elcan spectre zeroed at 100m on 4x - nice little 10-shot group inside a 2.5 inch black patch.
Same paper, same shooter, same rifle 30 seconds later, same ammo. Rolled it back to lowest 1x power setting and planted a 10-shot group about twice the size of the first group about 8 inches high and off to the 1 o'clock direction . Two distinct groups from the same point of aim.
Gotta say I would have some confidence issues if my life depended on THAT. Seriously - zero at 100m and engage a bad guy at 300m with an 8 minute shift. I hope there's TWO bad guys beside one another and one's taller than the other.
POS.
if you were going to engage a bad guy at 300m would you really do it on 1X ?
my guess is no..the 1X is for CQB and anything within at 100m perimeter would be worm bait. i gotta say that i would have some confidence issues if the soldier beside me didnt know that.
But if it's 8 inches high at 100m...that's pretty bad even for a cqb setting. If you had to make a low-probability shot you would be el ####o.
If I were the owner of that optic I'd be repeating that test a bunch of times to make sure that it wasn't a fluke somehow. If that was a reproduceable result...#### it, that optic is gone.
I really, really want to like the Spectre. I have said a lot of times that if they stop using Arms mounts, I'm interested. But an 8 MOA shift is ridiculous. I would be inclined to think it's a screwed up optic because that is by far the worst POI shift I've heard of on these, but if owners and fans are saying, "so what, that's the wrong setting to use it on anyway" then I'm forced to wonder if that's at least somewhat normal. I heard the older ones had a worse shift issue...if that's been corrected, okay. But if that is acceptable to Elcan users...is this something they are seeing regularly?
That's garbage.
If I were the owner of that optic I'd be repeating that test a bunch of times to make sure that it wasn't a fluke somehow. If that was a reproduceable result...#### it, that optic is gone.
I really, really want to like the Spectre. I have said a lot of times that if they stop using Arms mounts, I'm interested. But an 8 MOA shift is ridiculous. I would be inclined to think it's a screwed up optic because that is by far the worst POI shift I've heard of on these, but if owners and fans are saying, "so what, that's the wrong setting to use it on anyway" then I'm forced to wonder if that's at least somewhat normal. I heard the older ones had a worse shift issue...if that's been corrected, okay. But if that is acceptable to Elcan users...is this something they are seeing regularly?
That's garbage.
I have 6 Elcan Spectre DR optics ranging from 1-4X to 1.5-6X in both 5.56 and 7.62. I have never ever seen a shift of more that 1.5 inches from zero when shooting 10 round groups @ 100m on either 1X or 1.5X, so I assumed the post implied 8 inches @ 300m... Perhaps i was wrong and if it was that far from zero @ 100m on 1X, i would be pretty disappointed as well. I think its an anomally, and would return it for service.
The shifts you're describing are more along the lines of the reports I've heard...those shifts are reasonable IMO and would not bother me too much.
NavyShooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- XMU Local .303
Ok,
You've settled on your opinion based on using the optic for something it wasn't designed for. Long range shooting at 1X.
The 1X portion of the optic is optimized for 35 meters or less.
The 4X portion of the optic is optimized for longer ranges.
Yes, zero at 100 with 4X.
Shift to 1X for close-range shots FIRED AT CLOSE RANGE.
Shift back to 4X at 100m and see if you're back on zero. Willing to bet you'll still be at the same POI. THAT is what Return to zero means. (Additionally, removal of the optic from the rail and re-installation will be RTZ, supposing you've properly cleaned the mating surfaces before you install each time.)
I'm willing to also bet that the 1X shots fired at ranges less than 35 meters will NOT be 8 MOA out. I'm also willing to bet that anyone using the Specter DR on targets at 300 meters will be taking the one-two seconds to flip it back to 4X for the long-range engagement....otherwise, they're a fool, and wasting their ammo.
That all said, you've made up your mind, and reality isn't going to shake your opinion.
Don't like it, don't buy it.
NS
