Elephant Rifle vs Ballistic Gel

[BigUglyMan]

A range of 5-10 yards is the range that seems to turn the crank of those who wish to confront an elephant. The key word here is confront, rather than shoot from a distance. If that's the game you intend to play, knowing the terminal behavior of your bullet is advantagous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqus80yxJ5g

If you're not confronting the elephant, you're missing the point. If I ever shoot one I want to sneak right in on him and, if he becomes aware of me and turns I want to put the front sight on the centre of his nose (you have to aim lower than you think) and kill him instantly with one shot. If he doesn't turn, I want to put one just behind his ear to drop him. Poking a hole, even with a thumb-sized bullet, through a basketball-sized heart and waiting an extended period for a bull elephant to bleed out doesn't interest me.

 

[Boomer]

If you're not confronting the elephant, you're missing the point. If I ever shoot one I want to sneak right in on him and, if he becomes aware of me and turns I want to put the front sight on the centre of his nose (you have to aim lower than you think) and kill him instantly with one shot. If he doesn't turn, I want to put one just behind his ear to drop him. Poking a hole, even with a thumb-sized bullet, through a basketball-sized heart and waiting an extended period for a bull elephant to bleed out doesn't interest me.

I hear that. Douglas (remember him?) told me that elephants are hands down the most dangerous game on the planet, and when I hunted with Sullivan, if we accidently came up on a herd in heavy cover we quietly tip toed away. One of the Africans told me, if you climbed a tree to get away from an elephant you had annoyed in some way, he'd simply rip a small tree out of the ground (small being relative) and swat you out of the tree with it, then transform you into a puddle. Makes buffalo hunting seem about as exciting as shooting prairie dogs.

 

[BigUglyMan]

I hear that. Douglas (remember him?) told me that elephants are hands down the most dangerous game on the planet, and when I hunted with Sullivan, if we accidently came up on a herd in heavy cover we quietly tip toed away. One of the Africans told me, if you climbed a tree to get away from an elephant you had annoyed in some way, he'd simply rip a small tree out of the ground (small being relative) and swat you out of the tree with it, then transform you into a puddle. Makes buffalo hunting seem about as exciting as shooting prairie dogs.

We had to flee on foot from some elephants at one point. I'll never forget Robert (if you've seen Boddington on Buffalo 2 you will have seen Robert on the segment where they talked to the trackers) tellign me, once we ran up a hill, that if the elephant ran up the hill after us that meant that he was serious and I would have to shoot him.

I did not feel any sense of overconfidence.

 

[brybenn]

Your 400 grain bullet at 2400 is right around what I am getting with my Rigby. That would be an awesome load for just about anything.

What kind of rifle is your 458? With some of today's powders and if you can seat the bullets out a bit the 458 Win doesn't give up anything to the Lott. I have one in a Zastava, but am restricted a bit on oal so I don't get the velocities I can get in the Lott.

I have fired 20 in one session , 55 might tenderize me a bit too much.

Its a worked over interarms mark x with a 26.5" douglas barrel. Completely glass bedded action mag well and entire barrel channel. It wears the bushnell elite now but i had first started with the old redfield 4x32. With the woodliegh 400 ppsn i can load them out quite far. Havent shot anything but targets with them. 7 4l water jugs werent enough to catch the bullet. Ive taken several bears with the 405 gr rem flat nose jacketed soft point. They leave a hell of a hole but have held up well on the one left in a bear. Running shot bear going up an incline at 164 paces. Hit just above the back hip. Pulverized about 9" of spine then the bullet traveled straight up the bottom of the backstrap taking all but 1 rib then continuing thru the front shoulder and rested against the hide. Bear rolled and disappeared behind a log. Imagine my surprise after smoking my cigar and going up to the log and find not a trace. Somehow a 1 legged bear dragged itself up and into a thicket of spruce trees as i made my way to it. A massive growl backed me back out to have another cigar and attack from downwind. A second shot at 5' finished it. That one legged bear came out from under a spruce quicker than a cottontail bunnny. That shot left a massive hole. With any other cartridge i highly doubt id have found that bear. I had a good hold on the back of the neck figured the bullet would drop in right between the back shoulders. Guess the bear was moving faster than i thought

 

[Boomer]

We had to flee on foot from some elephants at one point. I'll never forget Robert (if you've seen Boddington on Buffalo 2 you will have seen Robert on the segment where they talked to the trackers) tellign me, once we ran up a hill, that if the elephant ran up the hill after us that meant that he was serious and I would have to shoot him.

I did not feel any sense of overconfidence.

If a defense kill, I wonder if you would have had to pay the trophy fee. That might have stung.

We were chased, in the Land Cruiser, by a young elephant who seemed to object to our transiting his turf. I was astonished so much sound could come out of one animal. Telling the driver he needed to go faster was unnecessary.

 

[geologist]

If a defense kill, I wonder if you would have had to pay the trophy fee. That might have stung.

We were chased, in the Land Cruiser, by a young elephant who seemed to object to our transiting his turf. I was astonished so much sound could come out of one animal. Telling the driver he needed to go faster was unnecessary.

 

[buckhunter78]

My uncle grew up in South Africa. He tells me when he was young his dad was hired to exterminate nuisance elephants. He is not a gun guy so he dosnt recall the caliber but he rembers an elephant charging his dad. He had some sort of double barrel large caliber rifle. He shot the charging elephant in forehead. The impact stopped the elephant in its tracks. Back legs collapsed. It sat down and died. He tells me it was pretty common to have an elephant come straight for you. Shoot it in the forehead once. That would be it.

 

[Trimmer 905]

My uncle grew up in South Africa. He tells me when he was young his dad was hired to exterminate nuisance elephants. He is not a gun guy so he dosnt recall the caliber but he rembers an elephant charging his dad. He had some sort of double barrel large caliber rifle. He shot the charging elephant in forehead. The impact stopped the elephant in its tracks. Back legs collapsed. It sat down and died. He tells me it was pretty common to have an elephant come straight for you. Shoot it in the forehead once. That would be it.

He used a double rifle? I once held a Holland&Holland double in .375H&H that belonged to an American friend. To me,it was like going to church at Christmas.

 

[machinistbutler]

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Its a worked over interarms mark x with a 26.5" douglas barrel. Completely glass bedded action mag well and entire barrel channel. It wears the bushnell elite now but i had first started with the old redfield 4x32. With the woodliegh 400 ppsn i can load them out quite far. Havent shot anything but targets with them. 7 4l water jugs werent enough to catch the bullet. Ive taken several bears with the 405 gr rem flat nose jacketed soft point. They leave a hell of a hole but have held up well on the one left in a bear. Running shot bear going up an incline at 164 paces. Hit just above the back hip. Pulverized about 9" of spine then the bullet traveled straight up the bottom of the backstrap taking all but 1 rib then continuing thru the front shoulder and rested against the hide. Bear rolled and disappeared behind a log. Imagine my surprise after smoking my cigar and going up to the log and find not a trace. Somehow a 1 legged bear dragged itself up and into a thicket of spruce trees as i made my way to it. A massive growl backed me back out to have another cigar and attack from downwind. A second shot at 5' finished it. That one legged bear came out from under a spruce quicker than a cottontail bunnny. That shot left a massive hole. With any other cartridge i highly doubt id have found that bear. I had a good hold on the back of the neck figured the bullet would drop in right between the back shoulders. Guess the bear was moving faster than i thought

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That is one big mushroom. Used my 458 Lott a few days ago to take a little whitetail buck . Was using a 500 grain A frame, bullet wasn't recovered, the shot was a bit over 200 yards. My cousin will let me know the path the bullet took. The top was off its heart and it exited between the neck and shoulder.

 

[9.3mauser]

It would be interesting to compare the penetration of some small bore solids, like a 175 gr 7x57 or a 220 gr .30/06. I bet they'd have a hard time stopping them in ballistic gel.

 

[remington jim]

My 9 Lb custom 416 Taylor with Horn 400 gr DGX is a Hand full to shoot ! RJ

 

[MajorMalcontent]

Ive fired 55 rounds with my 458wm in a single sitting prone over bags. 405 gr rem fnsp at 2400 fps. I ended up bleeding thru both nostrils and my right arm was considerably slower then my left thruout the day. I did bruise but no real worse than shooting a 100rnds of trap with a 6.5lb sxs. My gun weighs in at around the 10lb mark. 458wm is not that bad to learn to master. Its a reloaders dream though. From cast bullet loads which make it a big bore pellet gun to a mad elephant stomper and everything in between.
My current load is woodliegh 400gr ppsn at just over 2400fps from a 26.5" barrel. Dead on at 50 yards it drops only 8" at 225 yards.
With winchester solids ive shot thru a car but havent managed to put a hole thru the block shooting for the fender to fender hole
I may do a 458lott sometime but for now my 458wm suits me well enough and will one day hopefully cape a cape buffalo for me

Years ago I had a Ruger #3 in 45-70. I use to load up those 500gr Hornadys to 2050fps. Not that far off from the original .458WM factory stuff, but no match for what's possible if you handload. However, that little #3 weighed about 7 lbs with scope and rings and had an aluminum butt plate! Couldn't shoot too many of those rascals in a single sitting

 

[geologist]

It would be interesting to compare the penetration of some small bore solids, like a 175 gr 7x57 or a 220 gr .30/06. I bet they'd have a hard time stopping them in ballistic gel.

High sectional density is a good thing.