Mr Wolverine
CGN Regular
- Location
- Manitoba. Canada
Yes we can organise hunting trips for Lion and Leopard!
Elephant
- Thread starter Mr Wolverine
- Start date
15567
CGN frequent flyer
Well ... there are other choices like a $25,000 pussy safari.
Mr Wolverine
CGN Regular
- Location
- Manitoba. Canada
“I don't get it. I feel bad for those elephants. At $25,000.00 per? WTF!!!”
I assume you don’t agree with hunting Elephant or maybe even hunting in general? I respect your opinion, but I will try to explain a little.
The elephant population in Africa is increasing, in some small areas it may be declining but the total is increasing, so is the human population and the usable land base is decreasing. The result is that the elephant population needs to be controlled, if not an over population will cause needless habitat destruction which has an escalating detrimental effect on other species. Elephant birth control has been tried and many do not see culling in a favourable light so this leaves “sport hunting”. This is very strictly controlled (A Botswana game warden accompanied me the whole time I was hunting), sport hunting brings money into the local community.
There is a saying in Africa regarding the wild game “If it pays, it stays” The large increase in wild animal populations is due to the favourable economics of hunting. For example: Public auctions are held where captured wild game is sold; this enables landowners to purchase breeding stock and improve the quantity and quality (improved genetics) of the animals on their property.
I have seen Rhino on property being fed and nurtured, one day some of them will be hunted, but the trade off is that their population is increasing, this has to be good, whether you believe in hunting or not.
As for feeling bad for the Elephant, they are very capable of looking after them selves.
Elephant always manage to kill a PH or hunter or two every year, apart from several unwary locals. Not for nothing are they a member of the “big five” I feel very privileged in being able to hunt them, after I shot my bull I carried the video camera, I stood unarmed and “shot” film instead, it was great. They are very noble beasts, the thrill of hunting them ranks as one of the best experiences of my life. I can’t begin to describe the feeling of aw when the first big bull (15 ft to the top of his head) trotted up to 20 yds from me, to check me out, he had four young bulls backing him up. I was so pleased that he had one tusk broken off, he wasn’t the trophy I wanted so I did not have to shoot him. I will carry that memory with me forever, that and the huge grins on the faces of the trackers and PH when I looked round and said, “So that is an Elephant, they are real after all!”
To me Africa is magical, the animals and the country have me enchanted, it matters not if you carry a rifle or camera, the experience of a trip there is unbelievable.
I assume you don’t agree with hunting Elephant or maybe even hunting in general? I respect your opinion, but I will try to explain a little.
The elephant population in Africa is increasing, in some small areas it may be declining but the total is increasing, so is the human population and the usable land base is decreasing. The result is that the elephant population needs to be controlled, if not an over population will cause needless habitat destruction which has an escalating detrimental effect on other species. Elephant birth control has been tried and many do not see culling in a favourable light so this leaves “sport hunting”. This is very strictly controlled (A Botswana game warden accompanied me the whole time I was hunting), sport hunting brings money into the local community.
There is a saying in Africa regarding the wild game “If it pays, it stays” The large increase in wild animal populations is due to the favourable economics of hunting. For example: Public auctions are held where captured wild game is sold; this enables landowners to purchase breeding stock and improve the quantity and quality (improved genetics) of the animals on their property.
I have seen Rhino on property being fed and nurtured, one day some of them will be hunted, but the trade off is that their population is increasing, this has to be good, whether you believe in hunting or not.
As for feeling bad for the Elephant, they are very capable of looking after them selves.
Elephant always manage to kill a PH or hunter or two every year, apart from several unwary locals. Not for nothing are they a member of the “big five” I feel very privileged in being able to hunt them, after I shot my bull I carried the video camera, I stood unarmed and “shot” film instead, it was great. They are very noble beasts, the thrill of hunting them ranks as one of the best experiences of my life. I can’t begin to describe the feeling of aw when the first big bull (15 ft to the top of his head) trotted up to 20 yds from me, to check me out, he had four young bulls backing him up. I was so pleased that he had one tusk broken off, he wasn’t the trophy I wanted so I did not have to shoot him. I will carry that memory with me forever, that and the huge grins on the faces of the trackers and PH when I looked round and said, “So that is an Elephant, they are real after all!”
To me Africa is magical, the animals and the country have me enchanted, it matters not if you carry a rifle or camera, the experience of a trip there is unbelievable.
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Steyr101
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary, AB and Dorval, QC
Don't feel you need to justify anything John, especially here on CGN.
For many of us, you have lived our dream. I've already started putting money aside for an African Safari...
For many of us, you have lived our dream. I've already started putting money aside for an African Safari...
15567
CGN frequent flyer
Coincidentally, I watched a movie last night aptly titled "The Most Dangerous Game" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0023238/. No it was not about hunting the elephant ...
It is true that the amount of "safari" game animals has declined substantially in Africa and it has to do with humans and the overpopulation, poaching and loss of habitat.
The elephant is a majestic and noble beast that is truly admirable ... enjoy your video John.
It is true that the amount of "safari" game animals has declined substantially in Africa and it has to do with humans and the overpopulation, poaching and loss of habitat.
The elephant is a majestic and noble beast that is truly admirable ... enjoy your video John.
Thank you for enlightening me. It does sound like one of life's great experiences. I'm not against hunting it's just that I don't know anyone that eats Elephant and I guess I don't like the idea of killing something just for the sake of killing it with a firearm and feeling proud about it when it's not for meat. Obviously that's not what you are doing. I would love to bring the camera and shoot pictures all day. I bet it would be amazing. For some reason I thought Elephants were becoming extinct and were protected. I shouldn't comment on things I know nothing about it. Sorry John.
Mr Wolverine
CGN Regular
- Location
- Manitoba. Canada
No apologies required, I was less than clear. I have yet to see any game meat wasted in Africa, the locals even eat parts of the animal that I would only feed to my dog, their basic hygiene when butchering in the field often leaves a lot to be desired, but in hunting camps the game is butchered and cooled in excellent conditions, choice cuts are always available for meals in camp. Why ask for beef steak when local game can be enjoyed.
In the case of my Ellie, we told the local village where he laid and took guides to him the next morning. The locals were following us on foot and with their donkey carts to transport the meat home. By the look of the dirty sacks, old knives and rusty axes I was pleased that they were not supplying meat to our camp, sadly I never got to sample him. With hind sight I should have slept under the stars beside my Ellie, until the locals arrived the next day.
The area where I was hunting is a tribal area. This area was cris-crossed with dirt roads and traditional round mud brick thatched houses, Cattle and goats were all over the place, lots of them with bells on. The local Leopards evidently love these goats! Next to these houses were kraals or thorn boomers where the animals spent their nights. Water was “trucked” in 5 gall plastic drums by donkey carts. Next to these houses were small (2 to 5 acres) fenced in fields where maize and sorghum was grown. The first rain came when I was there so the donkeys started to plough these fields as I was leaving. I have great respect for these farmers who’s only means to keep the Ellies out of their crops was to sit in the field all night with a stick. Another reason for limited hunting so the Ellies would have a fear for man and keep away.
I also do not support killing simply for sake of killing. Animals should only be harvested for meat or trophies, obviously the destruction of pests and problem animals is another matter. I also believe very strongly that hunting should always be conducted in an ethical manner, in accordance with traditions of a “fair chase.”
True hunters are the best conservationist, I find it extremely encouraging to find that this is especially true in Africa, where previously the numbers of many species were dropping dangerously low but are now enjoying an increase due to the demand for hunting. I am very please to report that the Elephant is making a strong come back.
Local housing
New kraal with goats.
These wells are constructed and used in the dry season. It was water from a well like this that saved us one day, but that’s another story.
Trucking water home, donkey harness is made from old conveyer belting from the local mine, no polished brass here.
With the first rains , ploughing started.
In the case of my Ellie, we told the local village where he laid and took guides to him the next morning. The locals were following us on foot and with their donkey carts to transport the meat home. By the look of the dirty sacks, old knives and rusty axes I was pleased that they were not supplying meat to our camp, sadly I never got to sample him. With hind sight I should have slept under the stars beside my Ellie, until the locals arrived the next day.
The area where I was hunting is a tribal area. This area was cris-crossed with dirt roads and traditional round mud brick thatched houses, Cattle and goats were all over the place, lots of them with bells on. The local Leopards evidently love these goats! Next to these houses were kraals or thorn boomers where the animals spent their nights. Water was “trucked” in 5 gall plastic drums by donkey carts. Next to these houses were small (2 to 5 acres) fenced in fields where maize and sorghum was grown. The first rain came when I was there so the donkeys started to plough these fields as I was leaving. I have great respect for these farmers who’s only means to keep the Ellies out of their crops was to sit in the field all night with a stick. Another reason for limited hunting so the Ellies would have a fear for man and keep away.
I also do not support killing simply for sake of killing. Animals should only be harvested for meat or trophies, obviously the destruction of pests and problem animals is another matter. I also believe very strongly that hunting should always be conducted in an ethical manner, in accordance with traditions of a “fair chase.”
True hunters are the best conservationist, I find it extremely encouraging to find that this is especially true in Africa, where previously the numbers of many species were dropping dangerously low but are now enjoying an increase due to the demand for hunting. I am very please to report that the Elephant is making a strong come back.
Local housing
New kraal with goats.
These wells are constructed and used in the dry season. It was water from a well like this that saved us one day, but that’s another story.
Trucking water home, donkey harness is made from old conveyer belting from the local mine, no polished brass here.
With the first rains , ploughing started.
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IntelGDR691
CGN Regular
Fred Farmer
CGN Regular
- Location
- Brampton Ontario
Greetings all,
It it possible to import your ivory into Canada? How about the U.S.?
It it possible to import your ivory into Canada? How about the U.S.?
Mr Wolverine
CGN Regular
- Location
- Manitoba. Canada
Importing Ivory: Basicly the international trading in ivory is prohibited, the importation of trophy ivory is OK assuming all the correct paper work is in place, including CITES. In my case into Canada is approved. In to the US, I belive the US may not allow the importation of ivory from some African countries, please ask the US authorities for exact details.
I know of another fellow that has got to hunt elephant. where he was hunting they were only allowed to take very old elephants thats teeth were going bad on them so they were beginning to starve. the elephants in this park were all tracked so they knew which ones needed to be taken.
Mr Wolverine
CGN Regular
- Location
- Manitoba. Canada
As our temperature here in Manitoba has dropped to a balmy -30 C I have to think back to day three of the hunt, that was a “killer” day!
The early morning wake up call was 4.15 am as we tried to leave camp by 5 am every morning, just as dawn was breaking. We found tracks at 7 am, after the normal short “Chinese Parliament” we set off. The tracks were of a very large animal, probably the largest we were to see on this trip. Let me add that I was following advice and drinking lots in the evening, I always do, but seldom water, I was drinking at least a liter with and after supper and taking another liter to bed which was gone before breakfast. This is a lot of water for me, but no way was I going to drop out due to heat exhaustion. Plenty of juice and tea when I got up, must be good to go.
When we left the Land Rover the cooler was emptied into the two small rucks the trackers were carrying, unbeknown to me there had not been enough water in camp that morning as the staff had underestimated our requirements. I also carry a 2 quart US canteen, this enables me to drink when ever I want to with out disturbing the trackers concentration, on this occasion I was to wish I had kept this in reserve.
Elephants amble along at 6 mph, Jeff had us stepping out at 4 mph which was fast given the conditions. The only way you can gain on an Elephant in this type of tracking hunt is when they stop to browse, an adult Ellie has to eat for 15 hours a day as they require 500 to 600 lbs of food, they normally stop at mid day and stand in the shade of a large tree gently flapping their ears. Not us, as the mid day sun reaches it’s height our pace quickens and the excitement of catching up increases.
After 2 hours we had a 10 min break, Robert and Jeff conferred in whispers, this was a BIG BULL and he was not stopping to browse, why not? Maybe he had heard us, the wind was in our favor, at least what little there was, may be he was in “Must” a hormone change in males which has them searching for a receptive mate. All I could do was dream of giant tusks, but was it hot, very very hot, I was glad I was traveling very light, but tomorrow I would leave my knife behind (Something I will never do again in Africa!) and half my shells to lighten my load even more. How soon will we catch up with him I asked, Robert reply “Mid day” Jeff just grinned. I thought to my self 3 to 4 more hours, I will give this my “best shot” we carried on.
By mid day I was burning up, no breeze, no shade from the noon sun and water almost all gone, I needed a pail of cold water to dunk my head in but there was nothing, not even a cattle trough. This big Bull had me beat, dreams of taking his ivory home were wilting in the heat. A halt was called at the base of a rocky outcrop, the trackers were sent up the top to scan the area, normally I would also climb up with them but not today. My head felt like it would explode, and my whole body was on fire, I sat on a rock and tried to throw up, the water in my canteen was now hot, I had a couple of swallows and decided to save the rest, the day was not over. I remember at that point I saluted the old bull, it makes me smile as I write this, he was king not me, I may have had a rifle but he had me beat.
The PH’s conferred, I watched a tiny lizard crawl under a rock and wished I could do the same. They estimated the bull was still 1 -2 hours ahead, it would take us until 5 pm to catch him up at the rate we were going and our water wouldn’t last that long. It was also obvious that I was suffering the first effects of heat exhaustion, the decision was made to call the hunt off. The GPS gave us a direct heading back to the Land Rover, two scouts heading of separately as they thought they could find water.
Time to head out, I was given a fresh bottle of water and Jeff took my rifle, the shame of that, no one has ever carried my rifle before, it hurts to admit that, but I was very thankful. Now we took a leisurely pace and stopped every time we passed a shady tree. The time is blurred but after a few hours we came to a couple of native huts, we were invited over to them. We propped our rifles against the fence and walked over, chairs were provided. In front of us were plastic 5 gall cans of water, water from the wells in the river, this was the best tasting water I have ever drank, it was hot from sitting in the sun and I tried not to think of frogs. I walked over to a small bush, lent over, took my glasses off and poured a bottle over my head, this hot water hit my head like it was icy cold, with in 10 mins I felt very much better. We thanked them and left, I shall never forget that elderly couple. Later the GPS told us we had walked 35 K. Little did I know that by the end of the trip I would be totally addicted to hunting Elephants.
Inspecting one of the wells in the river, although the river was dry water is flowing underground, this is used to water livestock and taken to their huts.
A close up of a well, see the frogs!
The start of the walk back to the Land Rover, by 2 pm the temp was starting to slowly drop.
Enjoying the local hospitality.
Yes, my water came from the Castrol jug. Certainly a day to remember.
The early morning wake up call was 4.15 am as we tried to leave camp by 5 am every morning, just as dawn was breaking. We found tracks at 7 am, after the normal short “Chinese Parliament” we set off. The tracks were of a very large animal, probably the largest we were to see on this trip. Let me add that I was following advice and drinking lots in the evening, I always do, but seldom water, I was drinking at least a liter with and after supper and taking another liter to bed which was gone before breakfast. This is a lot of water for me, but no way was I going to drop out due to heat exhaustion. Plenty of juice and tea when I got up, must be good to go.
When we left the Land Rover the cooler was emptied into the two small rucks the trackers were carrying, unbeknown to me there had not been enough water in camp that morning as the staff had underestimated our requirements. I also carry a 2 quart US canteen, this enables me to drink when ever I want to with out disturbing the trackers concentration, on this occasion I was to wish I had kept this in reserve.
Elephants amble along at 6 mph, Jeff had us stepping out at 4 mph which was fast given the conditions. The only way you can gain on an Elephant in this type of tracking hunt is when they stop to browse, an adult Ellie has to eat for 15 hours a day as they require 500 to 600 lbs of food, they normally stop at mid day and stand in the shade of a large tree gently flapping their ears. Not us, as the mid day sun reaches it’s height our pace quickens and the excitement of catching up increases.
After 2 hours we had a 10 min break, Robert and Jeff conferred in whispers, this was a BIG BULL and he was not stopping to browse, why not? Maybe he had heard us, the wind was in our favor, at least what little there was, may be he was in “Must” a hormone change in males which has them searching for a receptive mate. All I could do was dream of giant tusks, but was it hot, very very hot, I was glad I was traveling very light, but tomorrow I would leave my knife behind (Something I will never do again in Africa!) and half my shells to lighten my load even more. How soon will we catch up with him I asked, Robert reply “Mid day” Jeff just grinned. I thought to my self 3 to 4 more hours, I will give this my “best shot” we carried on.
By mid day I was burning up, no breeze, no shade from the noon sun and water almost all gone, I needed a pail of cold water to dunk my head in but there was nothing, not even a cattle trough. This big Bull had me beat, dreams of taking his ivory home were wilting in the heat. A halt was called at the base of a rocky outcrop, the trackers were sent up the top to scan the area, normally I would also climb up with them but not today. My head felt like it would explode, and my whole body was on fire, I sat on a rock and tried to throw up, the water in my canteen was now hot, I had a couple of swallows and decided to save the rest, the day was not over. I remember at that point I saluted the old bull, it makes me smile as I write this, he was king not me, I may have had a rifle but he had me beat.
The PH’s conferred, I watched a tiny lizard crawl under a rock and wished I could do the same. They estimated the bull was still 1 -2 hours ahead, it would take us until 5 pm to catch him up at the rate we were going and our water wouldn’t last that long. It was also obvious that I was suffering the first effects of heat exhaustion, the decision was made to call the hunt off. The GPS gave us a direct heading back to the Land Rover, two scouts heading of separately as they thought they could find water.
Time to head out, I was given a fresh bottle of water and Jeff took my rifle, the shame of that, no one has ever carried my rifle before, it hurts to admit that, but I was very thankful. Now we took a leisurely pace and stopped every time we passed a shady tree. The time is blurred but after a few hours we came to a couple of native huts, we were invited over to them. We propped our rifles against the fence and walked over, chairs were provided. In front of us were plastic 5 gall cans of water, water from the wells in the river, this was the best tasting water I have ever drank, it was hot from sitting in the sun and I tried not to think of frogs. I walked over to a small bush, lent over, took my glasses off and poured a bottle over my head, this hot water hit my head like it was icy cold, with in 10 mins I felt very much better. We thanked them and left, I shall never forget that elderly couple. Later the GPS told us we had walked 35 K. Little did I know that by the end of the trip I would be totally addicted to hunting Elephants.
Inspecting one of the wells in the river, although the river was dry water is flowing underground, this is used to water livestock and taken to their huts.
A close up of a well, see the frogs!
The start of the walk back to the Land Rover, by 2 pm the temp was starting to slowly drop.
Enjoying the local hospitality.
Yes, my water came from the Castrol jug. Certainly a day to remember.
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Mr Wolverine
CGN Regular
- Location
- Manitoba. Canada
Left to right: My own double rifle by CB Vaughan 11.5 lb 26 inch non ejector in .470 NE, manufactured in 1903, she is a real pussy cat to shoot.
Jeff’s Hyme double rifle in .416 Rigby, a little ighter than my .470, she is very well used and Jeff loves her.
Robert’s Mauser .375 H&H, Robert has used this rifle for over 20 years and she shows it! Robert has been a PH for over 30 years and has a great deal of experance.
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savagelh
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Saskatoon Saskatchewan
Thanks for posting the stories and pictures. Sends a chill down my spine. I'm jealous.
- Location
- Nashville, Tennessee
I agree completely and want to add my thanks too!
