Elevation left on new scope

You know how they get all that extra adjustment on the same size tube as their competitors? They lower the optical quality by using a smaller system than higher end optic companies do and then they claim they have industry leading adjustment range. Its all smoke and mirrors. There are no free lunches in optics. Happy to see dogleg knows about the inside of scopes and why windage and elevation work in tandem. That's refreshing to see on CGN.

Also, claiming that damage can happen to the system and cause parallax errors if the scope is adjusted to the extremes is proof they are a low end optic using an inferior system. Leupold doesn't come with a warning not to fire their scopes when elevation is maxed out for long range shooting on a heavy recoil rifle like a .50, just saying.
Cameron SS said:
Just had a lengthy conversation with one of the technicians at Bushnell. He confirmed that there is nothing wrong with my scope, and that having much more adjustment than what is advertised is not uncommon. He indicated that the rated adjustment that you see advertised is the IDEAL adjustment range, and Bushnell does not recommend adjusting a scope outside of that range as it can cause parallax issues, or damage to the scope mechanism if heavy recoil is applied to the scope while at the extreme ends of the adjustment range.
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Recce21 said:
You know how they get all that extra adjustment on the same size tube as their competitors? They lower the optical quality by using a smaller system than higher end optic companies do and then they claim they have industry leading adjustment range. Its all smoke and mirrors. There are no free lunches in optics. Happy to see dogleg knows about the inside of scopes and why windage and elevation work in tandem. That's refreshing to see on CGN.

Also, claiming that damage can happen to the system and cause parallax errors if the scope is adjusted to the extremes is proof they are a low end optic using an inferior system. Leupold doesn't come with a warning not to fire their scopes when elevation is maxed out for long range shooting on a heavy recoil rifle like a .50, just saying.
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To be clear, the stated adjustment range is 50 MOA, and the tech assured me if i stayed in that range, i would not have any parallax issues, and extreme recoil would be unlikely to damage the scope. The problems arise when i leave that ideal adjustment range. 50 MOA for 25mm scope tube is a perfectly reasonable adjustment range.

I asked the bushnell tech why not put adjustment range limiters in the scope to prevent people from making adjustments outside the optimal range, and he said on their higher end scopes they do. On higher end scopes when they advertise 60, 70 , 80 MOA of travel, the scope is built to prevent people from leaving that adjustment range, because they expect people demanding those scopes to actually use the full range. But on the lower end scopes, in order to keep cost low, they don't build those failsafes in and most shooters will never actually use that full range. Bit of a wash if you ask me.

I expect Leupold to do a similar thing. Its not a question of using inferior products. Your object lens is curved. Bigger lens means greater room to move the reticle around before you end up out of the centre of the lens. Once you are look at your target through curved glass, you will have parallax issues. I am sure with a 34 MM tube, without the built in adjustment range limiters, you could probably get 200 MOA or more of adjustment. Without the limiters, if you wound a Leupold all the way down to the extreme bottom of the drum with the spring under max tension and fired it on a 50 BMG, you would probably break it. Higher end scopes aren't just made with be grade materials, they are designed better as well, with built in features to prevent damage.
 
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The "limiter" is the tube. There is no built in limiter in the adjuster, you can max a Leupold scope in any direction and it is the tube that stops it with no affect on parallax or durability. Not that extreme adjustments are recommended simply because it limits any other travel. The Objective lens has ZERO effect on the adjustment range or quality of the image. The size of the objective is directly linked to the size of the exit pupil on maximum magnification and due to the advanced nature of optics, the old myth of bigger objective equals more light and a better image is no longer true. Hasn't been for several years. Larger magnification scopes have larger Objectives and Lower magnification scopes have smaller objectives simply due to the manufacturer ensuring the correct exit pupil, everything else is marketing and aesthetics. You would only experience distortion from a curved Objective lens if your tube and objective lens were the same size, which they are not. A tube is smaller than the objective and keeps the system in the optimal portion of the objective.

If you compress the erector spring fully it means that you have bottomed out your "down" elevation, not your "up" elevation. Scopes are designed like that so you have LESS compression of your erector spring as you dial up for more elevation so that you can shoot as far as possible with maximum reliability. An adjuster is a screw, nothing more nothing less. It may have wizzy features but its nature is to screw in to push down on the system and give you more “down” adjustment and screws out to release pressure on the system causing it to travel upwards in the tube to give you “up” adjustment. At first this seems counter intuitive that moving the sight picture “up” gives you elevation but remember, the scope is an optic and the image is reversed and then “corrected” so you view the image correctly in your brain.

And the reticle doesn’t move in the scope at all, the system does. The system moves the entire sight picture at once and the reticle stays centered because if it didn’t, you would experience jump/drift of your aiming point when changing magnification ranges because the reticle would no longer be centered unless the entire system remained at optical center aka you would have zero ability to adjust windage or elevation. The reticle is limited by system travel, not lens size.

Cameron SS said:
To be clear, the stated adjustment range is 50 MOA, and the tech assured me if i stayed in that range, i would not have any parallax issues, and extreme recoil would be unlikely to damage the scope. The problems arise when i leave that ideal adjustment range. 50 MOA for 25mm scope tube is a perfectly reasonable adjustment range.

I asked the bushnell tech why not put adjustment range limiters in the scope to prevent people from making adjustments outside the optimal range, and he said on their higher end scopes they do. On higher end scopes when they advertise 60, 70 , 80 MOA of travel, the scope is built to prevent people from leaving that adjustment range, because they expect people demanding those scopes to actually use the full range. But on the lower end scopes, in order to keep cost low, they don't build those failsafes in and most shooters will never actually use that full range. Bit of a wash if you ask me.

I expect Leupold to do a similar thing. Its not a question of using inferior products. Your object lens is curved. Bigger lens means greater room to move the reticle around before you end up out of the centre of the lens. Once you are look at your target through curved glass, you will have parallax issues. I am sure with a 34 MM tube, without the built in adjustment range limiters, you could probably get 200 MOA or more of adjustment. Without the limiters, if you wound a Leupold all the way down to the extreme bottom of the drum with the spring under max tension and fired it on a 50 BMG, you would probably break it. Higher end scopes aren't just made with be grade materials, they are designed better as well, with built in features to prevent damage.
Click to expand...
 
Recce21 said:
The "limiter" is the tube. There is no built in limiter in the adjuster, you can max a Leupold scope in any direction and it is the tube that stops it with no affect on parallax or durability. Not that extreme adjustments are recommended simply because it limits any other travel. The Objective lens has ZERO effect on the adjustment range or quality of the image. The size of the objective is directly linked to the size of the exit pupil on maximum magnification and due to the advanced nature of optics, the old myth of bigger objective equals more light and a better image is no longer true. Hasn't been for several years. Larger magnification scopes have larger Objectives and Lower magnification scopes have smaller objectives simply due to the manufacturer ensuring the correct exit pupil, everything else is marketing and aesthetics. You would only experience distortion from a curved Objective lens if your tube and objective lens were the same size, which they are not. A tube is smaller than the objective and keeps the system in the optimal portion of the objective.

If you compress the erector spring fully it means that you have bottomed out your "down" elevation, not your "up" elevation. Scopes are designed like that so you have LESS compression of your erector spring as you dial up for more elevation so that you can shoot as far as possible with maximum reliability. An adjuster is a screw, nothing more nothing less. It may have wizzy features but its nature is to screw in to push down on the system and give you more “down” adjustment and screws out to release pressure on the system causing it to travel upwards in the tube to give you “up” adjustment. At first this seems counter intuitive that moving the sight picture “up” gives you elevation but remember, the scope is an optic and the image is reversed and then “corrected” so you view the image correctly in your brain.

And the reticle doesn’t move in the scope at all, the system does. The system moves the entire sight picture at once and the reticle stays centered because if it didn’t, you would experience jump/drift of your aiming point when changing magnification ranges because the reticle would no longer be centered unless the entire system remained at optical center aka you would have zero ability to adjust windage or elevation. The reticle is limited by system travel, not lens size.
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To the extent that I understand what you are saying, I take it at face value. I certainly don't have the knowledge or experience to comment on most of it, and would love to tear open a scope to investigate.

To the extent that some of what you said directly contradicts what the Bushnell technical specialist told me, with respect, and in regards specifically to Bushnell scopes, I will stick with what the tech told me.
 
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