Eley ammo mislabeled. .....

cycbb486

cycbb486

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Has anyone ever bought case lots of Eley ammo where the ammo inside had the same lot number as the case,

BUT

The velocity was marked differently?

Secondly,

Those of you that shoot competitively, how much velocity variation will you cope with from lot to lot? In other words X velocity shoots lights out, how much either side of that target will you go for the life of that barrel?

Thanks in advance......

Calvin
 
Apparently Eley will put a brick from another lot into a case but our group has never bought a case of the same lot.
The lot number on the box should have the bulk of that lot number in the case. How many bricks were different?
It would help to see a picture of the two variants.
 
horseman2 said:
Apparently Eley will put a brick from another lot into a case but our group has never bought a case of the same lot.
The lot number on the box should have the bulk of that lot number in the case. How many bricks were different?
It would help to see a picture of the two variants.
Click to expand...

Eley and other manufacturers do not mix them up just for the heck of it. Manufacturers ship cases by the lot number. Someone else, once it reaches the distributor or dealer, may add bricks to an incomplete case when they have odds and ends. This is more likely to happen when the customer doesn't specify that he wants his entire purchase to be from one lot. The problem often arises from customers wanting a number of different lots to test.

The velocity printed on a box of ammo is the approximate average velocity over a variety of tested batches of ammo. Most lots should be relatively close to the published MV, but that will vary from rifle to rifle for a variety of reasons -- for example, differences in barrel length, bore diameter (they are not all exactly the same), condition of bore, etc.. Generally speaking, the better quality match ammo (often the more expensive) should be closer to the printed MV than entry level ammo. If you find a box of ammo with an extreme spread (ES) of 20 fps you have struck gold. It would not be uncommon to find an ES of 40 fps or so in many of the usually available match ammos.
 
Trust me....

I understand how the Eley lot numbers work. The ENTIRE CASE OF 5000 is out.

The number on the case is: 1011-01221
Velocity 1043

The bricks are all: 1011-01221 with a velocity of 1058.

This is a sealed case lot.

I discussed in length what I wanted. It is not the suppliers fault.

I am just asking to see if anyone else has ever had this happen. Supplier told me this is the second time he has had this in 15 years. I will try it out and see how it goes. If not to my liking I can ship the rest back.

Also thanks for the info on velocity spreads. That is what I wanted to hear. I understand the printed velocity is an average but I wanted to know more.

I was advised that die hard will not deviate more than a few fps of the printed velocity when needing more ammo.
 
cycbb486 said:
Trust me....

I understand how the Eley lot numbers work. The ENTIRE CASE OF 5000 is out.

The number on the case is: 1011-01221
Velocity 1043

The bricks are all: 1011-01221 with a velocity of 1058.

This is a sealed case lot.

I discussed in length what I wanted. It is not the suppliers fault.

I am just asking to see if anyone else has ever had this happen. Supplier told me this is the second time he has had this in 15 years. I will try it out and see how it goes. If not to my liking I can ship the rest back.

Also thanks for the info on velocity spreads. That is what I wanted to hear. I understand the printed velocity is an average but I wanted to know more.

I was advised that die hard will not deviate more than a few fps of the printed velocity when needing more ammo.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what is meant by the parts in bold.

Are the velocity figures in bold the printed figures on the ammo box, or are they the average derived from chronographing the ammo yourself?
By "die hard" -- do you mean the very serious shooters? Ideally shooters who are concerned about problems posed by a significant ES will want ammo that deviates very little from the printed velocity. But there are no guarantees offered by rimfire ammunition makers that any ammo will produce a low ES in any given rifle. The only way to really know what the MV is for a given batch or lot of ammo is to chronograph the ammo and to calculate an average. At the same time it would be possible to arrive at the extreme spread of the ammo as well as its standard deviation (SD). The lower the SD figure the greater the number of individual rounds of the ammo from the tested batch would be closer to average MV.
 
To be honest I have never checked the case velocity to the brick or box velocity, I keep track of my lot numbers though, mainly because humidity and temperature effect the ammo so much that I pick the lot number that works for me in those conditions I'll be shooting in....
Funny thing is I'll be needing more ammo in the next month or two, so I'll be keeping an eye on this myself, however I have never found their published velocity to be a true indicator as to what velocity I will get in my rifles....believe it or not but in the same rifle I have been both faster and slower then their published numbers....so take that with a grain of salt and keep your shots centered in the target..........
 
I was going to tyou up another response to this but I just feel I cannot make it any clearer than I did on my last post.

DIEHARD to me is a competitive shooter, not a plink er.

The velocities I mentioned are not my chronographed but that on the actual case and the individual bricks.

Sometimes it is just easier to talk on the phone versus typing this crap out.

I will call one of the Rimfire guys I know from St.Louis and just ask him......less painful than typing.
 
cycbb486 said:
.
The velocities I mentioned are not my chronographed but that on the actual case and the individual bricks.
Click to expand...
To make life even simpler, the printed MV's on a box of ammo or a case of ammo is not a written guarantee of the muzzle velocity of that ammo. And certainly not all the ammo in the box or case will have an MV that corresponds to what is printed. Some will be slower and some will be faster. The only way to know what the MV of any ammo is to chronograph it. No one should rely on what is printed on a box. I'll bet that's what St. Louis said.
 
The printed MV on any ammo will be the average obtained *in their test rifles*. Any given lot will be plus or minus of the intended goal, typically 1080 fps is what they strive for. If they further adjust the labeling to give the average velocity of the individual lot, again that is the number they got in their own test rifles. The velocity you observe in your own rifle will vary significantly. I've tested some Federal Match 922A in two rifles, one averaged 1071.82 fps, the other 1034.18 fps, nearly a 40 fps difference in the average velocity between the two rifles. Ammo was same lot number, two boxes of 50 from the same brick.

I haven't done enough testing to determine whether or not a specific MV obtained in my rifle is ideal, it is important that whatever I'm shooting is consistent though. I do think there would be a proportional relationship to the printed MV of the lot and the actual obtained in your rifle, such that one could be confident that purchasing brand X at Y fps results in the ideal MV for your rifle.
 
grauhanen said:
To make life even simpler, the printed MV's on a box of ammo or a case of ammo is not a written guarantee of the muzzle velocity of that ammo. And certainly not all the ammo in the box or case will have an MV that corresponds to what is printed. Some will be slower and some will be faster. The only way to know what the MV of any ammo is to chronograph it. No one should rely on what is printed on a box. I'll bet that's what St. Louis said.
Click to expand...
The MV that was printed on the case of ammo did not match th MV printed on the boxes inside the case. The case said the MV was one number, but the boxes inside the case said a different number.
 
disregard the printed MV.......test the lot number.......and then the other lot numbers.....write down the temperature and humidity....retry all in different conditions....find 3 or 4 that work in different conditions and buy all four cases, then pic the lot number for the conditions of the day your shooting
 
Underthegun said:
The MV that was printed on the case of ammo did not match th MV printed on the boxes inside the case. The case said the MV was one number, but the boxes inside the case said a different number.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's what the OP indicated. The case was labelled 1043 fps, while the bricks were labelled 1058. Since the printed MV is an average derived using Eley's rifles, and not the actual MV experienced by a shooter, the difference in labelling is relatively unimportant here. If the ammo did in fact have the MV printed on the case or the brick, then it would be magic ammo -- that is supernatural in that every round or even most of the ammo did indeed have the printed MV.

dsmitherin said:
i've had eley ammo that's missing about 1/5 th of lead off the nose.
Click to expand...
Most Eley ammo is not round nose. It is flat nose.
 
It is all under control now......I was informed how to do the ammo tests and what to look for.

In my current rifle it is not as big a deal but in the next...........

Found the man who will do a build. It appears whatever he touches he can put together magic, center fire or rim fire.

and just as Yodave said.......

MV means nothing.........I was given some bad advice and now it is clarified
 
grauhanen said:
Yes, that's what the OP indicated. The case was labelled 1043 fps, while the bricks were labelled 1058. Since the printed MV is an average derived using Eley's rifles, and not the actual MV experienced by a shooter, the difference in labelling is relatively unimportant here. If the ammo did in fact have the MV printed on the case or the brick, then it would be magic ammo -- that is supernatural in that every round or even most of the ammo did indeed have the printed MV.


Most Eley ammo is not round nose. It is flat nose.
Click to expand...
it's a single round out of brick that looks like that.
 
cycbb486 said:
It is all under control now......I was informed how to do the ammo tests and what to look for.

In my current rifle it is not as big a deal but in the next...........

Found the man who will do a build. It appears whatever he touches he can put together magic, center fire or rim fire.

and just as Yodave said.......

MV means nothing.........I was given some bad advice and now it is clarified
Click to expand...

Who is the magic smith?
 
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