Elk slaughter in Manitoba

darcy32171 said:
Not to get off topic, but its a simple question: Why is it that: natives can legally hunt off the reserves and on the reserves, but a non native can only hunt off a reserve and not in a reserve????? Is that not racism against white folk???? I just remember growing up being told: Never get caught hunting or shooting inside reserve boundaries.
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IIRC the Manitoba hunting guide states that reserves are treated as private land, so you would have to ask permission to hunt there. Pretty sure natives need permission to hunt on private land also.
 
bronco_mudder said:
Enfield, those "tags" that the MMF gave you are about only good for fire starter, or wiping your butt. The tags are issued by the MMF, not the province, or federal government. They are rules made up by the MMF, not the provincial, or federal government. Therefore they can and will not be enforced by Manitoba Conservation. The Manitoba government is not in the business of enforcing organiztions rules. The rights that were given to the Metis to harvest are basically the same as a treaty person, ie no limits, seasons, etc. The difference lies in the fact that Metis harvesting rights only fall into a certain area within the province, unlike treaty who's rights are province wide.
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Just going by what they told me at the MMF. Thanks for the info. However I was told that if I didnt follow the "Metis Laws of the Hunt" I could have my harvester card revoked.
 
Enfield303 said:
Just going by what they told me at the MMF. Thanks for the info. However I was told that if I didnt follow the "Metis Laws of the Hunt" I could have my harvester card revoked.
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Truth be told, you don't even need a harvester's card. That's another MMF thing. Although, should you be charged, and you didn't have an MMF harvester's card the MMF won't back you in court. Not all Metis associate themselves with the MMF for one reason or another. If you can prove your geneology and are entitled to sustenance hunting as a metis because of it you're good to go. If one was to take that route though I'd be making sure I had my ducks in a row before I did any hunting with out a license. IE. being in touch with Manitoba Conservation and finding out what is required to prove your rights. The area within the province that Metis are allowed to hunt would still apply though, as that is government enforced.
 
The natives can hunt off reserve because it's in the treaties. They relinquish all land except reserves but may harvest fish and game from the Queen's land until time as the Crown deems the land needed.
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Most treaties include the clause below, or a very similar clause, the one below is copied from treaty 5.

Her Majesty further agrees with Her said Indians, that they, the said Indians, shall have right to pursue their avocations of hunting and fishing throughout the tract surrendered as hereinbefore described, subject to such regulations as may from time to time be made by Her Government of Her Dominion of Canada,
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In other words, the treaties allow the government to implement any restrictions on native hunting that they choose to, wherever, and whenever they choose to.
 
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Kelly Timoffee said:
They can but they won't, but they do want to secure votes. ;)
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What you said about votes makes me think, and I could be wayy wrong, (most likely)
Seeing as the "left" seem to be very tree huggerish, and the conservatives probably don't get much in the way of "native" votes, one might think its possible to do something about "it" and not really lose any support, or possibly even gain support from people that may be somewhat anti conservative.
If any of that even makes sense.
 
Welcome to the "socialist republic of Manitoba". The NDP gets voted in because they get free votes from people that rely on social programs. The "white man" promises the "Indian" free money in exchange for votes. The "white man" gains power and money, and the natives get filtered money. Funny how the native leaders have lots of money and the people living on the reserves are living in poverty. The only person that wins is the rich politician that collects a big pay check. The natives thought they got screwed when they signed the treaty to give up their land. Now they are giving up their dignity in exchange for socialist bullsh!t.
 
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/Elk-killing-prompts-investigation-by-province-185479782.html

Some of the comments on the free press page are interesting to say the least.


The farmer that let them hunt in his fenced in hay area should also go to jail.....The Elk get in his high fenced in hay area and can't get out.. He phones these clowns to come shoot them.. Simple as that... Bad farmer Bad..
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kawiguy said:
Welcome to the "socialist republic of Manitoba". The NDP gets voted in because they get free votes from people that rely on social programs. The "white man" promises the "Indian" free money in exchange for votes. The "white man" gains power and money, and the natives get filtered money. Funny how the native leaders have lots of money and the people living on the reserves are living in poverty. The only person that wins is the rich politician that collects a big pay check. The natives thought they got screwed when they signed the treaty to give up their land. Now they are giving up their dignity in exchange for socialist bullsh!t.
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"The people living on reserves are living in poverty".....I almost spewed my coffee all over the monitor when I read that. Now that is horse manure if I ever read it. They WANT YOU to THINK they are living in poverty. There are reserves around my province that you could drive on (of course you would want to be in disguise or you might not make it out of there) that every second household owns a 2008 or newer vehicle. Handout here, handout there....screw the handouts....if they want handouts, get it from THEIR casinos and the profits made there. You don`t want to pay tax off the reserve like us folk.....then stay on the god darn reserve.
 
I'm not saying all are poor, some are. I think the whole thing is pathetic. I don't know how this falls under subsistence hunting. Four wheel drive truck, snowmobiles, atv, gas, insurance, big screen tv, satellite dish, Internet, cell phone. Looks like they are in rough shape to me.

On a side note I just waited five years to draw an elk tag. Two hunters, one tag. I got my first elk, and the way it is going here it might be my last. In those five years I have seen several elk poached on private land. One cow was gut shot and they did not find it, but they took two others. All were shot off a public road at night
 
kawiguy said:
Welcome to the "socialist republic of Manitoba". The NDP gets voted in because they get free votes from people that rely on social programs. The "white man" promises the "Indian" free money in exchange for votes. The "white man" gains power and money, and the natives get filtered money. Funny how the native leaders have lots of money and the people living on the reserves are living in poverty. The only person that wins is the rich politician that collects a big pay check. The natives thought they got screwed when they signed the treaty to give up their land. Now they are giving up their dignity in exchange for socialist bullsh!t.
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As much as I despise the NDP, it's not actually solely on their shoulders. Indian Affairs is a federal entity and most of the money distributed to the reserves comes from the feds. There is plenty of money/housing/programs distributed to the individual reserves where they should all be living comfortably, but a corrupt chief and council seems to be the norm. Friends and relatives always get the lions share of the pot. The problem is that anyone can be elected chief and suddenly they're in charge of millions of dollars, where a week prior they couldn't manage their personal finances. This would corrupt nearly anyone and the reason many reserves are under third party management.
That said, there is also little pride of ownership on a reserve as everything is given for free, therefore nobody takes care of anything as they really don't appreciate it since they didn't have to do anything to obtain it.
But you're right in that the NDP will never be the party to make financial cuts to the reserves, as they depend on the vote. Make no mistake though, every political party plays to the demographic they receive the most votes from.
Basically, we need equality for all. How to obtain that is a long and difficult road, but it needs to start with governemnt cuts and there are few if any politicians willing to attempt it. The only way is if the general public is presented the truth of what goes on. For that to happen, the media needs to report the truth, another huge stumbling block. This story is a bit surprising, coming from the Free Press, but I'm pleasantly surprised. I wouldn't expect to see it from the CBC or CTV.
 
sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/straighttalk/archives/2013/01/20130103-152649.html
If half of this is true, why on earth do we put up with this.
 
bearkilr said:
As much as I despise the NDP, it's not actually solely on their shoulders. Indian Affairs is a federal entity and most of the money distributed to the reserves comes from the feds. There is plenty of money/housing/programs distributed to the individual reserves where they should all be living comfortably, but a corrupt chief and council seems to be the norm. Friends and relatives always get the lions share of the pot. The problem is that anyone can be elected chief and suddenly they're in charge of millions of dollars, where a week prior they couldn't manage their personal finances. This would corrupt nearly anyone and the reason many reserves are under third party management.
That said, there is also little pride of ownership on a reserve as everything is given for free, therefore nobody takes care of anything as they really don't appreciate it since they didn't have to do anything to obtain it.
But you're right in that the NDP will never be the party to make financial cuts to the reserves, as they depend on the vote. Make no mistake though, every political party plays to the demographic they receive the most votes from.
Basically, we need equality for all. How to obtain that is a long and difficult road, but it needs to start with governemnt cuts and there are few if any politicians willing to attempt it. The only way is if the general public is presented the truth of what goes on. For that to happen, the media needs to report the truth, another huge stumbling block. This story is a bit surprising, coming from the Free Press, but I'm pleasantly surprised. I wouldn't expect to see it from the CBC or CTV.
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I totally agree. Canada is to soft and scared to do anything now that this is gone on to long. Thats bs in my books.
 
A little update

Latest NewsWinnipeg Free Press - ONLINE EDITION

Elk killing pictures, video prompts investigation by province
By: Bruce Owen

Posted: 01/2/2013 5:41 PM | Comments: 193
63 123Reddit0Tumblr1 447Print E–mail The province is investigating the killing of 12 elk about a week ago near Swan River — the dead animals were lined up and photographed for posts on Facebook and YouTube — to see if the hunters shot the animals on private land without permission.

Manitoba Conservation and Water Stewardship officials are also concerned if the elk were baited — shared feed put out to lure them to the kill — which raises the risk of diseases like chronic wasting disease or bovine tuberculosis being passed to healthy animals.

Related ItemsArticles
•Province probes killing of 12 elk Baiting elk is prohibited for all hunters in Manitoba’s chronic wasting disease and tuberculosis protection zones.

The shooting of the dozen elk in one day also touched off a debate with racial overtones on social media about First Nation and Métis subsistence hunting rights and the need for the Manitoba government to bring in tougher hunting restrictions for elk, which are under pressure from harvesters with the continuing closure on moose hunting in some parts of the province.

"Since old Bullwinkle walked across the Bering land bridge thousands of years ago, he hasn’t changed at all," said Vince Crichton, Manitoba Conservation’s now-retired manager of game, fur and problem wildlife. Crichton is now a private consultant.

"But look at what we have today in terms of cars, trucks and snow machines. We all have better access. They are now more vulnerable than they’ve ever been in the past. We can’t continue to harvest the way we have and expect the resource to be their for future generations."

Crichton and others said the province, with the help of First Nations and Métis, has to set new rules on when and where male and female elk and moose can be hunted, and then limit how many can be harvested each year. The Selinger government extended hunting rights to Manitoba’s Métis last fall.

"We have to get on the same page," Crichton said. "Elk are going to be in the same position of moose in the not-too-distant future."

A provincial spokesman said Wednesday that licensed elk hunting is only permitted in Manitoba through a draw, which provides 1,700 tags each year. First Nation hunters are not generally subject to seasons or bag limits, but are subject to special restrictions such as moose-hunting bans in the Duck and Porcupine Mountain areas imposed in July 2011.

Officials are also trying to determine how many hunters were involved in the elk-kill and how many families were to get meat.

If elk are harvested in violation of provincial regulations, penalties could include a fine of as much as $10,000 or imprisonment for a term of as long as six months, or both, for each person found guilty.

The Facebook page showing the dead animals has been deleted, but the cellphone video is still posted.

Riley Flett, who took the videos and photos, said he took down his Facebook page when the comments became too inflammatory. His video was recorded by someone else, posted and circulated on YouTube and is out of his control.

Les Nelson, a former Duck Mountain outfitter and elk rancher, said the furor over the recent elk hunt has been blown out of proportion.

"If that was 12 licensed white men and they showed it on TV, all the animals laying there, everybody would have been saying that they’re good hunters," Nelson said. "Because they natives went out and did it for themselves, they’re wrong. The thing is what they did is just as legal as the white guy with the licence."
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5O3_3Chegwk
 
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