Encore ML 458 Projectile Question

Morpheus32

Morpheus32

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Good day,

since returning from tour, I just did not feel like shooting firearms and instead concentrated on my bow for hunting. My son and daughter approached me to go gun hunting. I have acquired a stock of 458/50 cal sabots and being a huge reloader for the 45/70, I have a ridiculous amount and selection of 458 bullets. I was thinking that I could essentially replicate 45/70 performance in the ML. I have found plenty of information on using 300 and 350 gr 458 bullets but nothing for 405gr jacketed or heavier lead. Now, I intend to use the ML for hunting so performance on deer is critical. I have the potential for elk as well but primarily whitetail deer. Is it worthwhile to work up something for the 405gr which I admit is pure nostalgia and the stock of bullets driving the idea but I also have a good holding of 300gr JHP, hornady 325 and lots of lead. Given this is outside my comfort zone of my normal rifle interest of precision, I would appreciate some thoughts on options. Or should I just stick with the standard ML fodder like the SSTor Barnes ML selection?
 
depends on the bore of your rifle. short blk harvester sabots shoot very well in my .50 cal. savage with .458 dia bullets. I've had the best luck with 300 grain bullets. Usually the closer the bullet to bore the better the rifle will shoot. The 300 gr. JHP would be a good place to start, I don't think you'll be disappointed.
 
My barrel is the bog standard 26 inch and I have a 20 inch katadyn. Both factory TC. Not sure what the twist is but will research today.
 
Twist rate appears to be 1:28 for all factory muzzleloading barrels. Note that the barrels are available in 28, 26 and 20 inch variants.

So I guess the question is further defined as:

1. Will a 1:28 twist barrel stabilize the sabot containing a projectile of the 458 variety with a weight greater than 350 grs ie 405, 450 and 500. The 405 grain being the popular and cheap Remington JHP, the other option being an all lead 405, 450, 500.

2. It is reasonable to expect that the 405 JHP performance will replicate the historic 405gr 45/70?

a. As this is for hunting, terminal performance is a priority.
b. Will the velocity spread out to 150m allow the bullet to perform properly given the velocity? IE some 458 bullets are intended for the 458 Win and thus perform at a higher velocity. Performance in those bullets is generally poor at lower velocity.
c. At closer ranges, I would not have hesitated to use my Marlin in 45/70 on most big game. Can I say the same for the ML replicating 45/70 performance? I think yes but would appreciate thoughts.

If money was not an issue, I would purchase and use a sharps rifle using blackpowder to take advantage of the stock of 45/70 supplies I have. But I have a marlin and ML so thought I would play with the ML first. I am intentionally limiting myself in terms of capability thus prefer the ML at this point. Plus it is unique for me from a hunting perspective.
 
Online ballistic calculators seem to suggest that a 1:28 will stabilize a 405 bullet between 1200 and 2200 FPS.

Traditional loads for a 45/70 were 405gr bullet at 1330 resulting in 1590 ft lbs and a 300 gr JHP at 1800 fps producing 2182 ft lbs.

Compared to 100gr of Buckhorn 209 which pussed a 400gr Barnes Original at 1800fps resulting in 2876 Ft lbs and 300gr Hornady SST-ML at 1900 fps.

http://www.namlhunt.com/mltrajectory.html

So I think I can say I can replicate the performance to some degree. Bullet selection is going to be an issue to make sure it matches the game.
 
Watch is your biggest concern about bullet selection? A bulk bought .452 300gr XTP and short pedal black MMP sabot will do everything. Gophers to Moose.
 
I am a big bullet, high sectional density guy when shooting animals. I am also a close range Hunter. I am attracted to the 405gr bullet not only because I have a couple thousand of them but the traditional ballistics of 45/70 are proven. I concur that I could use a 300 gr XTP or SST at medium speeds to 200m and likely will give them a go however I prefer a bigger bullet T short range over velocity.
 
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