Hi all,
I know that these two tend to be looked at as pretty much near the top of the list for Production shooters; having shot them both during the summer, I think I can provide some balanced opinions of how they stack up against each other, for those who might be sitting on the fence, not sure which way to jump.
I shot the L in the summer (Ont and PQ provincials and the Nationals), and the SP01 in the Triangle and some recent smaller matches.
ok, first, the standard disclaimer - I'm just commenting on the observed behavior of MY Tanfoglio L and MY SP01 - yours might behave differently, if they do, feel free to post something here, I'm not suggesting that all will follow what I've seen.
My standard match ammo for level 3 and level 2s which I care about is Winchester 9mm whitebox stuff, I started the summer with the 115gr FMJ, moved to the 124gr WinClean, which I found to give me better recoil characteristics and recovery in both of these guns. Depending on location, weather, humidity, etc, I tend to get 135-142PF. My practice ammo is usually Wolf remanufactured ammo, sometimes FMJ, sometimes TMJ.
a) ACCURACY (group size)
There is a difference between match and practice ammo in the L, there isn't one with the SP01. Shooting the L using Wolf, the group size increases quickly - hitting a plate at 50m is pure luck. With match ammo, I can keep the shots within C at 50m.
Shooting the SP01, the groups size is about the same between the two types of ammo. I can keep all my shots within a B-Zone plate at 50m, with the match ammo (I didn't check that with Wolf, but at 15m there was no difference between Wolf and Winchester, whereas there was with the L).
So, I found the SP01 to be slightly better with the 'high end' ammo, and much better with the practice ammo. What this suggests to me is that if you make/load your own ammo, and you took the time to find the 'right' load, the L can be just as good as the SP01. Since I shoot only factory or Wolf, for me, the SP01 is better in any match which has partial targets beyond 15m or full targets beyond 25m (plus/minus)
b) PHYSICAL HANDLING
I like both guns equally, I prefer the "feel" of the SP01 a little bit, but the L points more naturally for me. The SP01 points slightly to the left for me, so if I stop paying attention, I end up with lots of A-C, with the second shot being a C to the left of the A.
So, this is a tie
c) RECOIL RECOVERY
Everyone comments on how quickly the SP01 comes back on target after a shot - that is really freaky! It snaps back to where the shot fired almost on its own. I can make the L behave this way, but I have to work on it, with the SP01 it happens by itself.
However: this did not translate in any actual time advantage for me, I was surprised to learn. I run multiple rapid fire tests, using an IPSC timer, and there wasn't a noticeable difference. The perception while shooting it is huge, but it must be all mental - I can make quick, accurate shots with the L just as quickly as with the SP01. Maybe the reason is that while the SP01 snaps back faster, the L points better, so the extra saving in comeback is taken up in sight readjustment for the next shot?
Either way, this is a tie
d) MAGAZINES
The standard CZ 10 round mags are pathetic, I find, BUT they work fine as stripper mags. I only use Tanfoglio mags, in both guns, and they work just fine. Baby eagle mags work fine, and the regular SP01 (18/19 rounders, pinned to 10) are supposed to be fine too (I've never used one). The mags are totally interchangeable.
Again, a tie
e) RELIABILITY
(std disclaimer - if you screw with your gun's internals, you're on your own, can't blame the gun anymore)
I've had more stovepipes and jams with the SP01 since I got it about 2 months ago then with the L which I've been shooting since May or so. BUT stove pipes only happen with Wolf (never with match ammo), and the one major jam was a double feed, and I think that had to do with mag lips getting too wide with usage, something which would affect any gun. So, though I had bigger problems with the SP01, they are explainable, and not an indication of any actual problem, I don't think. I'm not worried about either gun, from a reliability points of view.
UPDATE: I noticed today, with my SP01s, behavior which caused me to abandon the CZ 85 combat - mags are not dropping free! What I thought was the fault of oversized grips inside the mag well has now been shown to be the same problem as in the past: when the top round gets pushed into the chamber, the next round in-line gets pushed forward enough so that if you try to drop the mag at that time, the bullet of the next round catches on the inside of the mag well, and the mag needs to be yanked out! I was never able to get rid of this with the 85Combat, and this is the main reason why I no longer have an 85 combat. This tilts the balance very much onto the Tanfoglio L side, from the reliability point of view - I've never had any consistent problems with the L, which weren't caused by something like a part breaking. I'm hoping this won't be a consistent issue, but I'm worried already.
So, Tanfoglio L ahead of the SP01.
f) SIGHTS
The factory FO and adjustable sights on the L are much better than the factory sights on the SP01, BUT you can put really nice competition sights on the SP01 which make the two guns identical in this category (one difference, the competition SP01 sights are not adjustable, but I found them to be perfectly dialed in for any ammo I tried, so I'm not upset about the lack of adjustability).
Again, a tie.
g) TRIGGER
This is where the two guns will be different. Competition-specific parts offered by CZ-USA have been deemed to be production legal OFM equipment, which gives the SP01 a huge advantage over the L. With the competition hammer and the reduced power main spring, both the SA and the DA trigger pulls of the SP01 become fantastic. Furthermore, it was also deemed Prod-legal to remove the firing pin safety on the SP01, lowering further the trigger pull. The Tanfoglio L doesn't have such parts available, plus it uses a shorter, more compressed main spring, which gives it a really heavy DA pull, which requires addition pressure to be applied towards the end of the pull. Compared to a stock SP01, an L is slightly outgunned; comparing it to an SP01 fitted with all those Production legal CZ-USA parts, it is really outclassed, in the trigger pull department.
Now, this is all talking about the availability of ready-made factory parts. With a little bit of extra work, the SA trigger on the L can be made to pretty much match the SP01 competition trigger. I will not comment on the Production legality or the detectability of such alterations, which are, in theory, meant to accelerate the break-in process of the trigger mechanism anyway. The DA you are pretty much stuck with.
So, SP01 far ahead, but only because of the Production legal "OFM" equipment available to replace factory parts with. Comparing the two stock guns side by side, only a slight difference with the SP01 DA being just a tag easier to work with than the L DA. With extra work on the L, the guns come much closer together, with only the DA setting them apart.
h) HOLSTERS
Both guns will fit a CR Speed holster, both guns have JR/Speedsec/Ghost style holsters available, both have Bladetech DOH holsters available.
Again, a tie
i) SAFETY LEVERS
If you don't have a problem with manual decocking, the guns are identical. If you don't want to manually decock, the SP01 Tactical model comes with a decocking lever, which allows you to lower the hammer down, safely, to the half-#### (the CZ decocker is one of the few which does not lower the hammer all the way down. This position satisfies all IPSC and Prod-division rules, re the first DA shot - guns with decockers start with the hammer where ever it is left by the decocker, only when manually decocking you need to lower the hammer all the way down). This means that the DA pull on a decocker SP01 is slightly lighter than on a regular SP01, since the hammer is already at half-####.
Slight nod to the SP01, because of the decocker
SUMMARY:
As you can tell from the above, there is little difference between the two. Using lower-quality ammo in the L will give you larger group size than the same ammo in an SP01, but if you load your own ammo, you can most certainly find a load which will correct that. The only major difference is the availability of after-market "OFM" parts which allow you to change the trigger of an SP01 into something approaching a Std gun, while still remaining Production-legal. However, with some usage of the trigger mechanism (either through real or simulated shooting, simulated involving disassembly and Production-legality-questionable-but-not-really-detectable work) the SA trigger on the L can be just as nice as on the SP01. The DA will always remain noticeably heavier.
So, overall, a slight nod towards the SP01 because of the DA and because of the availability of the decocker, but the difference between the two is within the standard error margins, not really significant.
UPDATE: disturbing developments with the SP01, re reliability (see above); until I can demonstrate to myself that those issues can be controlled with specific ammo type or mags or what-ever, the L gets the nod re reliability, and let's be honest - doesn't matter how nice the DA trigger pull is, if the mags don't drop when you need them to, right? So, L ahead of the SP01 for now, as a competition gun, between the L and the SP01s which I have.
You will not be outgunned shooting either one of these guns in the Production division. Try both, and see if one fits your hand better than the other - then you'll have your answer.
I know that these two tend to be looked at as pretty much near the top of the list for Production shooters; having shot them both during the summer, I think I can provide some balanced opinions of how they stack up against each other, for those who might be sitting on the fence, not sure which way to jump.
I shot the L in the summer (Ont and PQ provincials and the Nationals), and the SP01 in the Triangle and some recent smaller matches.
ok, first, the standard disclaimer - I'm just commenting on the observed behavior of MY Tanfoglio L and MY SP01 - yours might behave differently, if they do, feel free to post something here, I'm not suggesting that all will follow what I've seen.
My standard match ammo for level 3 and level 2s which I care about is Winchester 9mm whitebox stuff, I started the summer with the 115gr FMJ, moved to the 124gr WinClean, which I found to give me better recoil characteristics and recovery in both of these guns. Depending on location, weather, humidity, etc, I tend to get 135-142PF. My practice ammo is usually Wolf remanufactured ammo, sometimes FMJ, sometimes TMJ.
a) ACCURACY (group size)
There is a difference between match and practice ammo in the L, there isn't one with the SP01. Shooting the L using Wolf, the group size increases quickly - hitting a plate at 50m is pure luck. With match ammo, I can keep the shots within C at 50m.
Shooting the SP01, the groups size is about the same between the two types of ammo. I can keep all my shots within a B-Zone plate at 50m, with the match ammo (I didn't check that with Wolf, but at 15m there was no difference between Wolf and Winchester, whereas there was with the L).
So, I found the SP01 to be slightly better with the 'high end' ammo, and much better with the practice ammo. What this suggests to me is that if you make/load your own ammo, and you took the time to find the 'right' load, the L can be just as good as the SP01. Since I shoot only factory or Wolf, for me, the SP01 is better in any match which has partial targets beyond 15m or full targets beyond 25m (plus/minus)
b) PHYSICAL HANDLING
I like both guns equally, I prefer the "feel" of the SP01 a little bit, but the L points more naturally for me. The SP01 points slightly to the left for me, so if I stop paying attention, I end up with lots of A-C, with the second shot being a C to the left of the A.
So, this is a tie
c) RECOIL RECOVERY
Everyone comments on how quickly the SP01 comes back on target after a shot - that is really freaky! It snaps back to where the shot fired almost on its own. I can make the L behave this way, but I have to work on it, with the SP01 it happens by itself.
However: this did not translate in any actual time advantage for me, I was surprised to learn. I run multiple rapid fire tests, using an IPSC timer, and there wasn't a noticeable difference. The perception while shooting it is huge, but it must be all mental - I can make quick, accurate shots with the L just as quickly as with the SP01. Maybe the reason is that while the SP01 snaps back faster, the L points better, so the extra saving in comeback is taken up in sight readjustment for the next shot?
Either way, this is a tie
d) MAGAZINES
The standard CZ 10 round mags are pathetic, I find, BUT they work fine as stripper mags. I only use Tanfoglio mags, in both guns, and they work just fine. Baby eagle mags work fine, and the regular SP01 (18/19 rounders, pinned to 10) are supposed to be fine too (I've never used one). The mags are totally interchangeable.
Again, a tie
e) RELIABILITY
(std disclaimer - if you screw with your gun's internals, you're on your own, can't blame the gun anymore)
I've had more stovepipes and jams with the SP01 since I got it about 2 months ago then with the L which I've been shooting since May or so. BUT stove pipes only happen with Wolf (never with match ammo), and the one major jam was a double feed, and I think that had to do with mag lips getting too wide with usage, something which would affect any gun. So, though I had bigger problems with the SP01, they are explainable, and not an indication of any actual problem, I don't think. I'm not worried about either gun, from a reliability points of view.
UPDATE: I noticed today, with my SP01s, behavior which caused me to abandon the CZ 85 combat - mags are not dropping free! What I thought was the fault of oversized grips inside the mag well has now been shown to be the same problem as in the past: when the top round gets pushed into the chamber, the next round in-line gets pushed forward enough so that if you try to drop the mag at that time, the bullet of the next round catches on the inside of the mag well, and the mag needs to be yanked out! I was never able to get rid of this with the 85Combat, and this is the main reason why I no longer have an 85 combat. This tilts the balance very much onto the Tanfoglio L side, from the reliability point of view - I've never had any consistent problems with the L, which weren't caused by something like a part breaking. I'm hoping this won't be a consistent issue, but I'm worried already.
So, Tanfoglio L ahead of the SP01.
f) SIGHTS
The factory FO and adjustable sights on the L are much better than the factory sights on the SP01, BUT you can put really nice competition sights on the SP01 which make the two guns identical in this category (one difference, the competition SP01 sights are not adjustable, but I found them to be perfectly dialed in for any ammo I tried, so I'm not upset about the lack of adjustability).
Again, a tie.
g) TRIGGER
This is where the two guns will be different. Competition-specific parts offered by CZ-USA have been deemed to be production legal OFM equipment, which gives the SP01 a huge advantage over the L. With the competition hammer and the reduced power main spring, both the SA and the DA trigger pulls of the SP01 become fantastic. Furthermore, it was also deemed Prod-legal to remove the firing pin safety on the SP01, lowering further the trigger pull. The Tanfoglio L doesn't have such parts available, plus it uses a shorter, more compressed main spring, which gives it a really heavy DA pull, which requires addition pressure to be applied towards the end of the pull. Compared to a stock SP01, an L is slightly outgunned; comparing it to an SP01 fitted with all those Production legal CZ-USA parts, it is really outclassed, in the trigger pull department.
Now, this is all talking about the availability of ready-made factory parts. With a little bit of extra work, the SA trigger on the L can be made to pretty much match the SP01 competition trigger. I will not comment on the Production legality or the detectability of such alterations, which are, in theory, meant to accelerate the break-in process of the trigger mechanism anyway. The DA you are pretty much stuck with.
So, SP01 far ahead, but only because of the Production legal "OFM" equipment available to replace factory parts with. Comparing the two stock guns side by side, only a slight difference with the SP01 DA being just a tag easier to work with than the L DA. With extra work on the L, the guns come much closer together, with only the DA setting them apart.
h) HOLSTERS
Both guns will fit a CR Speed holster, both guns have JR/Speedsec/Ghost style holsters available, both have Bladetech DOH holsters available.
Again, a tie
i) SAFETY LEVERS
If you don't have a problem with manual decocking, the guns are identical. If you don't want to manually decock, the SP01 Tactical model comes with a decocking lever, which allows you to lower the hammer down, safely, to the half-#### (the CZ decocker is one of the few which does not lower the hammer all the way down. This position satisfies all IPSC and Prod-division rules, re the first DA shot - guns with decockers start with the hammer where ever it is left by the decocker, only when manually decocking you need to lower the hammer all the way down). This means that the DA pull on a decocker SP01 is slightly lighter than on a regular SP01, since the hammer is already at half-####.
Slight nod to the SP01, because of the decocker
SUMMARY:
As you can tell from the above, there is little difference between the two. Using lower-quality ammo in the L will give you larger group size than the same ammo in an SP01, but if you load your own ammo, you can most certainly find a load which will correct that. The only major difference is the availability of after-market "OFM" parts which allow you to change the trigger of an SP01 into something approaching a Std gun, while still remaining Production-legal. However, with some usage of the trigger mechanism (either through real or simulated shooting, simulated involving disassembly and Production-legality-questionable-but-not-really-detectable work) the SA trigger on the L can be just as nice as on the SP01. The DA will always remain noticeably heavier.
So, overall, a slight nod towards the SP01 because of the DA and because of the availability of the decocker, but the difference between the two is within the standard error margins, not really significant.
UPDATE: disturbing developments with the SP01, re reliability (see above); until I can demonstrate to myself that those issues can be controlled with specific ammo type or mags or what-ever, the L gets the nod re reliability, and let's be honest - doesn't matter how nice the DA trigger pull is, if the mags don't drop when you need them to, right? So, L ahead of the SP01 for now, as a competition gun, between the L and the SP01s which I have.
You will not be outgunned shooting either one of these guns in the Production division. Try both, and see if one fits your hand better than the other - then you'll have your answer.
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