end-of-year review: Tanfoglio L vs CZ-75 SP01 for Production IPSC shooting (UPDATE)

My cz mags work perfectly in my Tanfoglio but my Tan mags are pretty tight in my CZ (I have a Pre B that I opened up the mag well to allow newer CZ mags to work). Probably need to open the well up more if I wanted to use the Tan mags in the CZ.

Take Care

Bob
 
Just out of curiousity, does the problem with the SP-01 (with the first round pushing the next round in the mag forward) change depending on how many rounds are left in the mag ? Do you have this problem more in the first few rounds or does it make no difference ? Does it occur every mag or only once in awhile ? Have you tried new mags or springs ? Do you think it is a mag problem or a gun problem (given that this problem is only now emerging) ?

I was about to buy an SP-01 but this problem is quite a strange one.
 
gorky said:
Just out of curiousity, does the problem with the SP-01 (with the first round pushing the next round in the mag forward) change depending on how many rounds are left in the mag ? [...] (given that this problem is only now emerging) ?
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This is a VERY old CZ problem, and in fact, this was the reason why I stopped using the 85Combat for IPSC and moved to other guns about 1.5-2 years ago.

I've been using/shooting various SP01s for anout 3/4 of a year now, without this problem. I am not, however, using CZ mags - I use only Tanfoglio mags. I think I was somehow successful in replicating this problem in my SP01 when using CZ mags (either the more recent ones with a plastic base, or the older all-steel ones). So, if this is what you're worried about, no problem, just use Tanfoglio mags, and you'll be fine. You can use your 2 CZ mags as the stripper and the last one on your belt...
 
Had the double feed problem with 85B mags once in a while and a few times with my Sp01 mags.

Keep the mags clean with loads that arent really long(bouncing off slide stop) and you never see it.
 
omen said:
This is a VERY old CZ problem, and in fact, this was the reason why I stopped using the 85Combat for IPSC and moved to other guns about 1.5-2 years ago.

I've been using/shooting various SP01s for anout 3/4 of a year now, without this problem. I am not, however, using CZ mags - I use only Tanfoglio mags. I think I was somehow successful in replicating this problem in my SP01 when using CZ mags (either the more recent ones with a plastic base, or the older all-steel ones). So, if this is what you're worried about, no problem, just use Tanfoglio mags, and you'll be fine. You can use your 2 CZ mags as the stripper and the last one on your belt...
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just a question... aren't you suppose to use only mags/equipment for that particular gun (except aftermarket mags)?? I have a mag for my gun that fits and works well but it's stamped .357 and I have a .40S&W cal. gun... under the rules (as far as I understand it) I couldn't use them even though they are from same manufacturer and all that is different is the caliber stamp on the base pad. Barretta mags work with my XD but it's a different manufacturer and not an aftermarket so that would be a no no as well ... sorry for the mini-hijack but all this talk of using different parts from different guns seems against the production division philosophy/rules??? or am i really off base and I can just use any internal parts that fit and work... because there are some stuff I can use to reduce triger pull and reset on my xd that I thought would put me into standard division.
 
open

maxpig said:
just a question... aren't you suppose to use only mags/equipment for that particular gun (except aftermarket mags)?? I have a mag for my gun that fits and works well but it's stamped .357 and I have a .40S&W cal. gun... under the rules (as far as I understand it) I couldn't use them even though they are from same manufacturer and all that is different is the caliber stamp on the base pad. Barretta mags work with my XD but it's a different manufacturer and not an aftermarket so that would be a no no as well ... sorry for the mini-hijack but all this talk of using different parts from different guns seems against the production division philosophy/rules??? or am i really off base and I can just use any internal parts that fit and work... because there are some stuff I can use to reduce triger pull and reset on my xd that I thought would put me into standard division.
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Actually, as per the rules, if you fail the production requirements, you are in OPEN division. Not standard. I'm pretty sure using mags from another manufacturer puts you in open as well as a 4.9 pound trigger pull.
Anybody out there know about the mag part??? Sean??? Vince???
 
StoneHorse said:
Yes you can use after market mags. Provided the external dimensions match the standard mags offered by the OFM.
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but what about a OFM mag that is designed/ stamped for use with say barretta but in a XD or a XD OFM mag stamped with .357 but in a xd .40 gun... not really speaking of aftermarket I understand that rule but interchangable mags that were issued and designed for a particular gun but works well in another
 
AlexS said:
Actually, as per the rules, if you fail the production requirements, you are in OPEN division. Not standard. I'm pretty sure using mags from another manufacturer puts you in open as well as a 4.9 pound trigger pull.
Anybody out there know about the mag part??? Sean??? Vince???
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yes knowing that I made those modifications I would choose to compete in Standard instead of declaring production and getting stuck in open.

The question is how can you take parts from another gun so to keep inline with this thread... a cz85 and put them on a sp01 and still meet the rules of production when the parts from the cz85 aren't available as an option on the SP01 (I'm assuming they don't sell them with CZ85 options) another way of saying this x model has x option ... y model has y options... but all the y options fit on x model and all the x options fit on y model but weren't originally sold as options to either model...
I thought the intent of production rules were that everything except aftermarket mags and sights(need to be of same type) must be OFM to the model.... springs sears barrel grips... slide... safeties... trigger options etc... because if one model has extended mag release how can you put that on a model that doesn't have it and still meet production rules... sorry for the rambling...
 
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maxpig said:
yes knowing that I made those modifications I would choose to compete in Standard instead of declaring production and getting stuck in open.

The question is how can you take parts from another gun so to keep inline with this thread... a cz85 and put them on a sp01 and still meet the rules of production when the parts from the cz85 aren't available as an option on the SP01 (I'm assuming they don't sell them with CZ85 options) another way of saying this x model has x option ... y model has y options... but all the y options fit on x model and all the x options fit on y model but weren't originally sold as options to either model...
I thought the intent of production rules were that everything except aftermarket mags and sights(need to be of same type) must be OFM to the model.... springs sears barrel grips... slide... safeties... trigger options etc... because if one model has extended mag release how can you put that on a model that doesn't have it and still meet production rules... sorry for the rambling...
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so does it mean that using a tanfolio mag on sp01 does not meet the production rule?
thanks
 
maxpig said:
but what about a OFM mag that is designed/ stamped for use with say barretta but in a XD or a XD OFM mag stamped with .357 but in a xd .40 gun... not really speaking of aftermarket I understand that rule but interchangable mags that were issued and designed for a particular gun but works well in another
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your answer to this is straight (and clear) from the 2006 rule book

20. Aftermarket parts, components and accessories are prohibited, except as follows:
20.1 Aftermarket magazines which match the external dimensions of standard magazines offered by the OFM for the approved handgun are permitted.
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If the Mag is not for that SPECIFIC gun, then it's not allowed. After market or not. (notice the use of the word "THE" not "AN")
 
reading more closely, I'm wondering whether or not gramatically the words "for the approved handgun" is being used as an adjective to describe something about the "standard magazine offered by the OFM".....if that is the case, and it is not describing the aftermarket magazine, then the aftermarket magazine is legal as long as it has the same external dimensions of the standard mags offered for that gun by the OFM........I believe further clarification is necessary and that Vince Pinto has a thread about this very issue on his website
 
Well the one very misleading thing in that thread is the claim that "tanfoglio" is and aftermarket seller for CZ.. this is not the case.. while the base design for tanfoglio is the CZ the parts are not designed to be interchangeable. Tan, is a modified design, and parts (including mags) are desinged to fit Tan guns.


(Btw: that thread is very old, (Jan 07)) I don't think there was ever a definitive answer)
 
after re-reading the rule and various threads it appears that only mags offered by the OFM for that specific model are approved "ie...even though CZ75B mags from CZ could be the same external dimension of SP01 mags they cannot be used in an SP01..you will be bumped to Open division.......unfortunately though, those same CZ75B mags offered by an aftermarket manufacturer would be Production legal in the SP01 as long as they are of the same external dimensions of the factory SP01 mags........sounds crazy but it appears to be true if you read all the threads on other sites about this..........now the question is "if the Tanfoglio mags are of the same external dimensions of the SP01 mags can they be used in an SP01?...the answer lies not on whether or not Tanfoglio is an afterrmarket manufactuer for CZ, just whether or not Tanfoglio can be classed as an aftermarket manufactuer
 
just trying to make heads or tails out of this myself.........it does appear that if you purchase ANY magazines from an aftermarket manufacturer (no matter which model they're being sold for) you can use them as long as they are identical in exterior dimensions to the mags of the original manufacturer of the approved handgun ........whereas if you ARE the OFM of the approved handgun you may only use those mags specifically offered and approved for that model............seems like a glitch in the rules to me
 
race1911 said:
just trying to make heads or tails out of this myself.........it does appear that if you purchase ANY magazines from an aftermarket manufacturer (no matter which model they're being sold for) you can use them as long as they are identical in exterior dimensions to the mags of the original manufacturer of the approved handgun ........whereas if you ARE the OFM of the approved handgun you may only use those mags specifically offered and approved for that model............seems like a glitch in the rules to me
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and that's where I'm all confused too... If an aftermarket magazine with exact external measurement are ok why can't I use XD mags for Beretta or vis-versa or XD .357 mag. in a XD .40 cal gun... demensions are the same and don't increase round count
 
Well, we will find out today, as I clearly laid out the question to vince (again). It's no a quesiton of which rule. That obvious fromt he rule book.. it's "what is considered to eb aftermarket".. that is the confusion..

This is what I've asked Vince to clarify.. I think it's the exact situation that is happening.

ckc123 said:
Does IPSC consider the use of ANY mag other then the OFM mag, to be "aftermarket" regardless of if that "aftermarket" mag, was designed for other pistols? or if that "aftermarket" magazine is the OFM Mag for a different pistol??
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After reading the threads on IPSC Village from Vince Pinto it appears that as long as the mags are from someone other than the original manufacturer and they are the same external dimensions as the mags of the OFM you can use them....even from another major manufacturer and no matter what handgun they were originally designed for.......ALSO , as far as the OFM goes, you may mix and match mags from that manufacturers particular models as long as they are listed options for the handgun that has been approved and as long as they do not increase round capacity as stated for the SP01......eg it is OK to use CZ75 16 round mags in an SP01 as all CZ75 mags are listed options for all CZ75 models and these do not increase the round capacity....CONVERSELY, taking this to the extreme, even though a Glock 18 (33round) mag is an OFM option for the Glock 17/19/26 it falls afoul of the "no increase to capacity" rule, hence, cannot be used.....this has been the outcome of the various threads on approved mag usage in Production Division as per the IPSC Global Village website.......I hope this clears up most of the misunderstanding about mag usage in Production division
 
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