I agree on all, with the exception of one thing and that is hydrostatic shock.... Hydrostatic shock is created by the force of bullet's expansion on the surrounding tissue...... In a discussion of "energy", we need to take into account all of the energy that is created, not just the linear energy created by the bullet's travel through the animal.....
Energy Transfer
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I agree on all, with the exception of one thing and that is hydrostatic shock.... Hydrostatic shock is created by the force of bullet's expansion on the surrounding tissue...... In a discussion of "energy", we need to take into account all of the energy that is created, not just the linear energy created by the bullet's travel through the animal.....
No they're not the same but the example shows that the amount of energy expended in the animal doesn't tell much. Penetration and wound channel tells us a lot. My go to hunting bullet the ttsx behaves more like a broadhead than many bullets, "wastes" most of its energy out the other side at modest range and kills very well.
One thing many here have neglected to consider..........I have found that a bullet at extreme velocity almost never exits where a lower velocity with the same bullet will, in a lot of cases. Barnes X bullets and other homogenous bullets excluded to a certain degree, but not altogether. This has been my experience in many, many animals. And I do not care what other people say, hydrostatic shock most certainly does exist and it most certainly aids in killing animals. I have personally witnessed it many, many times being the velocity freak that I am. What do you suppose tears a gopher to pieces when struck by a puny little 32 gn bullet from a 204 at 4100 fps...........it ain't the energy of that tiny bullet, it's the energy transfer through hydrostatic shock at the bullet upset. At the opposite end of the scale is the 22 LR with a 40 gn bullet at 1200 fps which many times I have zipped one through the guts and watched the gopher walk/crawl away until it is hit again. The 40 gn 22 LR bullet spent roughly 4 X as long inside the gopher, but did not kill anywhere near as effectively (or spectacularly) as the 204. Bullet construction is the great variable when talking penetration and energy transfer............I have taken several animals with what would be considered a non lethal shot but still had them succumb almost immediately, why....hydrostatic shock disruption of organ function.
High velocity and properly constructed bullets are the key to fast kills on game subject to shock. Not all game is, or rather we are incapable of shooting a cartridge big enough with enough energy to shock such animals as elephant, buffalo, hippo, bison and to a degree moose. With these animals we must place out shots carefully and use a bullet tough enough to get the penetration required to do as much tissue damage as possible through bullet passage. The time the bullet takes to do this is irrelevant as the animal succumbs exclusively to blood loss and organ and tissue damage from bullet passage.
High velocity and properly constructed bullets are the key to fast kills on game subject to shock. Not all game is, or rather we are incapable of shooting a cartridge big enough with enough energy to shock such animals as elephant, buffalo, hippo, bison and to a degree moose. With these animals we must place out shots carefully and use a bullet tough enough to get the penetration required to do as much tissue damage as possible through bullet passage. The time the bullet takes to do this is irrelevant as the animal succumbs exclusively to blood loss and organ and tissue damage from bullet passage.
Energy is force by distance. Force is the rate of change of momentum. So it is the slowing of the bullet that transfers energy.
In the Mythbusters episode where they shot the 50BMG into the swimming pool, the higher velocities slowed faster.
So that would be your answer.
In the Mythbusters episode where they shot the 50BMG into the swimming pool, the higher velocities slowed faster.
So that would be your answer.
Not really... if the two bullets are different makes, one can pass through due to poor expansion and one can stop because it expanded and performed well.
On another note, in all instances higher velocity creates more energy... but the bullet also has to perform well to deliver that energy.
Absolutely agree..... That is why bullet selection should match velocity....
That being said, a bullet does not have to have stopped inside and animal to have performed well....
Being a bit of ballistics nerd I find these dicussions always interesting. Here is a link to a very thorough write up on terminal ballistics along with a lot of bullet tests in 7mm-375 call for anyone interested in doing some reading 
http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/wounding.html
http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/wounding.html
The animals I've killed and the bullets I've recovered from them the faster the bullet impacted the more the bullet was deformed. The exit holes that did happen left big holes. My slower cal rifles or longer range shots my bullets have not been recovered except for a big buck I shot in the chest at 90 yards with a 50 Cal muzzleloader. The bullet drilled thru the heart an was 1/4" from the hide on the back side of the back leg. That deer ran 110 yards.
Time spent in the animal is irrelevant in my mind. That faster the bullet hits the faster it slows. Simple physics. The harder you hit something the harder it hits back. Place your open hand thru the surface of water it goes easily in then try slapping the water surface with an open hand as fast as you can
The animal and terrain determines whether the bullet should be moderate velocity and heavy or light and fast. From that choose a construction type for the intended purpose and shoot straight
Time spent in the animal is irrelevant in my mind. That faster the bullet hits the faster it slows. Simple physics. The harder you hit something the harder it hits back. Place your open hand thru the surface of water it goes easily in then try slapping the water surface with an open hand as fast as you can
The animal and terrain determines whether the bullet should be moderate velocity and heavy or light and fast. From that choose a construction type for the intended purpose and shoot straight
So I witnessed an Elk being shot once. A big Elk mind you. The distance was 560 yards. The cartridge was the 270 Winchester, and the bullet was the 130 TSX. Said bull was struck through the top of the heart. And the bullet went clean through. No CNS and no bone. Yet he went down like he was electrocuted. In fact, his head hit the ground so hard that he broke teeth. Then I saw a bull of very similar size struck with three bullets in the heart lung area at 75 yds as he trotted broad side to the rifle. One shoulder was pulverized. The cartridge was the 280 AI, the bullet the 140 TTSX, and every one was recovered. This bull showed absolutely zero reaction to the bullet until he just simply tipped over.
Energy dump? Energy transfer? Blood loss? Taking a dump? What happened?
I quit worrying about it. But I have noticed diaphragm shooters prefer frangible bullets.
As to the original quote. The dumbest thing I've ever read. Or at least close to it.
Energy dump? Energy transfer? Blood loss? Taking a dump? What happened?
I quit worrying about it. But I have noticed diaphragm shooters prefer frangible bullets.
As to the original quote. The dumbest thing I've ever read. Or at least close to it.
A strange thing, is that a bullet that doesn't hit the central nervous system, can affect the central nervous system. The mechanism isn't clear, but there are several studies where they wire up a pig to instruments, then shoot it.
ht tp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2313748
When they say changes, they mean the appearance of postmortem brain tissue under the microscope. Nobody really knows why.
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Anyone who has shot a big game animal, with a high velocity bullet, and watched the effect, can't reasonably believe that the speed does anything but transfer massive shock value. Less because it's faster? Just no! If it were true, then more energy would be transfered by the same bullet, from the same rifle at 500 yards, than at 100.
Can an animal shot at 500 die more quickly? Sure, but it proves nothing, as there are too many other variables at play. Where the hit was, the condition of the particular animal etc.
If you wanted to talk about the percentage of available energy transferred, the guy might have a point, however, in overall terms, no way.
Here's an example from my own career. I was hunting with the 30-30, a friend thought it would be fun to load some 30-30 bullets in his 30-06. The effect without being too graphic, was a hell of a lot of lost meat. In this instance, massive energy transfer = massive exit hole.
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Maybe we should start a thread to collect some data.
ie:
Cup & Core bullets at "X" velocity range hitting "X" type animal in "X" location on animal tends to do "Y". (possibly add in caliber and range hit)
or
Monolithic polymer tipped bullets at "X" velocity range hitting "X" type animal in "X" location on animal tends to do "Y".
Might be a long list but also might be a little easier to see patterns.
ie:
Cup & Core bullets at "X" velocity range hitting "X" type animal in "X" location on animal tends to do "Y". (possibly add in caliber and range hit)
or
Monolithic polymer tipped bullets at "X" velocity range hitting "X" type animal in "X" location on animal tends to do "Y".
Might be a long list but also might be a little easier to see patterns.
