Enfield 308 Winchester

[Snider shooter]

Picked up a rifle today that I just had to have. My interest was peeked by the globe front site and Parker Hale 5C rear site. Long Branch 43 converted to 308 Winchester. The sites are worth what I paid for it. Everything is Long Branch except for sites and stocks. The mag is for 303 so needs single loading of rounds. It has been reseriel numbered with those numbers being on barrel, receiver and bolt. Barrel is marked as 7.62 with CAW. Not sure what I have, my bets are on someone built it and not originally done by the military. She needs to be cleaned up before I take it to the range and try her out. Tempted to put full wood back on her.

 

[woodchopper]

early DCRA conversion #338

interesting stock.... thats not original to the rifle

 

[tiriaq]

When the rules changed for DCRA and PRA shooting, and rifles no longer had to be issue configuration for SR(b) competition, it was common for them to be restocked. These rifles faded from the ranges when service ball was no longer issued. They could not compete with purpose built target rifles shooting match ammunition. The restocking made them more comfortable to shoot, and gave an opportunity for improved bedding.
That is probably what what you have.

 

[Snider shooter]

Okay so done by the military. The stock is an MK3 with the screw, the rifle wasn’t updated to mk2/3. Recoil pad isn’t fit perfectly so done by someone not use to doing them. Marks still on the toe of pad. The wood doesn’t have any marks so I suspect it is a recent replacement. I have a wood set I could put on it, I am missing the lower nose cap. A 308 magazine would be nice but it also has a nice price. I have finished cleaning it up , minor surface rust and dirt. Bore looks good so hopefully she has a fair bit of use left.

 

[Halifax1977]

You beat me to that rifle. I was all over that ####### ad but was too late.
Congratulations.

 

[tiriaq]

The rebarreling was done at CAL in the 1960s under the auspices of the DCRA. A private owner could send his rifle for conversion. So could military competitors. CAL would rebarrel any sound No. 4, not just Long Branch made ones. A brand new .303 No. 4 could be purchased from the Gov't for $45. The rifle would have retained its issue configuration. Sometime after that, its civilian owner restocked it. This rebarreling program was done at CAL (Long Branch), but it wasn't a military operation. The program was to allow competitors to use issue 7.62 ball in DCRA/PRA competition. The supply of .303 ball was running low, and the C1A1 had become standard issue.
It was used for target shooting before, and probably, after being restocked. These restocked/rebarreled No. 4s in 7.63 were used in competition from the '70s into the early '90s.

 

[Snider shooter]

You beat me to that rifle. I was all over that ####### ad but was too late.
Congratulations.

Well you can’t win them all. Been a few on GP I was too late for. But I have found a few excellent deals.
Nice to know it’s an original rifle. I picked it up because of the sites and a LE in 308 I figured could be interesting. Now I will have to work out a load it likes. I know it’s trigger has been redone.

 

[55recce]

Bear in mind that this is a 7.62 Nato rifle and not a .308 Winchester rifle. There are many opinions on the differences but the consensus seems to be that 308 is a 10% hotter round and generally not considered to good to shoot in a rifle designed for 7.62

 

[tiriaq]

To establish a base line, you could try some groups with decent 7.62x51 ball - that is what it was intended to shoot. I would suggest match bullets 150-155gr. Should group better than ball. No. 4s are strong, but a No. 4 is not something you want to hot rod.
The 7.62 conversions did not tend to shoot as well as comparable .303 rifles. There were a variety of experiments conducted with different bedding systems. Once the rules permitted it, a lot of these rebarreled rifles got extensively worked over in attempts to improve accuracy.

 

[Blastattack]

Bear in mind that this is a 7.62 Nato rifle and not a .308 Winchester rifle. There are many opinions on the differences but the consensus seems to be that 308 is a 10% hotter round and generally not considered to good to shoot in a rifle designed for 7.62

That "consensus" is entirely false. Fully interchangeable.

 

[RRCo.]

That looks like a SILE stock set as used on the Parker Hale sporters. Decent woodwork.

 

[fat tony]

Someone read articles at 3o3Britishdotcom. Classic bubba history. He had me baffled for a while.

 

[jtaylor]

Hi Tiriaq. Your timeline is a bit off. At DCRA Ottawa .303 was still being used in 1968. However through the DCRA you had to forward any No.4 rifle to them and for about $75 they would have CAL rebarrel it to 7.62. I have some pics of the 1968 Bisley team and they had .303 rifles. Yes you could probably get a new 7.62 barrel thru the DCRA but then who are you going to get to do the job as good as CAL? NObody! In fact I remember looking in the trunk of an experienced shooter's car and he had a No.1 SMLE with 5A and a No.4 with 5C of course both in .303. The No.4 he used up to 600 yds and the No.1 for long distance. With the new .308 coming in many shooters simply retired. After 1968 the DCRA could not supply .303 ammo. JOHN

 

[tiriaq]

The rebarreling was done at CAL in the 1960s under the auspices of the DCRA. A private owner could send his rifle for conversion. So could military competitors. CAL would rebarrel any sound No. 4, not just Long Branch made ones. A brand new .303 No. 4 could be purchased from the Gov't for $45. The rifle would have retained its issue configuration. Sometime after that, its civilian owner restocked it. This rebarreling program was done at CAL (Long Branch), but it wasn't a military operation. The program was to allow competitors to use issue 7.62 ball in DCRA/PRA competition. The supply of .303 ball was running low, and the C1A1 had become standard issue.
It was used for target shooting before, and probably, after being restocked. These restocked/rebarreled No. 4s in 7.63 were used in competition from the '70s into the early '90s.

Hi Tiriaq. Your timeline is a bit off. At DCRA Ottawa .303 was still being used in 1968. However through the DCRA you had to forward any No.4 rifle to them and for about $75 they would have CAL rebarrel it to 7.62. I have some pics of the 1968 Bisley team and they had .303 rifles. Yes you could probably get a new 7.62 barrel thru the DCRA but then who are you going to get to do the job as good as CAL? NObody! In fact I remember looking in the trunk of an experienced shooter's car and he had a No.1 SMLE with 5A and a No.4 with 5C of course both in .303. The No.4 he used up to 600 yds and the No.1 for long distance. With the new .308 coming in many shooters simply retired. After 1968 the DCRA could not supply .303 ammo. JOHN

???
By restocked and rebarreled I'm referring to the 7.62 rifles fitted with S&L or Enfield barrels.

A fine example is item 74 in current the Barry Langille auction. The rifle was converted by CAL, then subsequently restocked and rebarreled with the longer heavier barrel (assuming it is an Enfield barrel).

 

[55recce]

https://www.targetbarn.com/broad-side/308-vs-7-62/

 

[gaff]

7.62 cetme, is where the confusion about 7.62 nato and 308, not being the same, comes from.

 

[tiriaq]

Apart from 7.62x51 vs .308 comparisons, the CAL conversions were to 7.62x51, and were intended to be used with 7.62x51 ball. Handloads were not a consideration.
The No. 4 can handle the cartridge, but it isn't the best choice for hot handloads.
Best to use 7.62x51 brass, with the heavier cases if handloading?
I have shot my conversion with S&L barrel with 46gr Varget, 155gr SMK in Winchester .308 brass without issues. Good idea? Don't know. Would best practice be loads duplicating NATO performance assembled in 7.62x51 cases?
There is also the issue of case stretch in Lee Enfield rifles because of their rear locking lugs and springy nature. If .303 cases can separate, surely .308 ones could too. I do not have enough experience to say.

 

[Snider shooter]

I was thinking of possible case stretching but figured I would try neck sizing. I have a few hundred brass , military and commercial so should be a problem dedicating a couple hundred to that rifle. I was saving my Lapua for a bolt gun so it may be used. I have lots of 150 grs fmj so will probably start with them or the Berger 178 I have. I still have a few rounds of 7.62 left so will be shooting them first to see how it shoots. I cleaned the rifle up over the weekend so definitely looking better. I just have to figure out which powder to start with. I have a few options in my cabinet. I have a few cast loads I use in my Savage 99 so I’ll have to try them.

 

[Ganderite]

Bear in mind that this is a 7.62 Nato rifle and not a .308 Winchester rifle. There are many opinions on the differences but the consensus seems to be that 308 is a 10% hotter round and generally not considered to good to shoot in a rifle designed for 7.62

No.

308 and 7.62 have very similar pressure limits - about 62,000 psi.

Most ammo is loaded around 55,000 t0 58,000 but I have seen both 308 (Winchester match) and 7,62 (IVI) at 62,000.

The myth about lower pressure for 7.62 arouse when the military literature described a limit of 55,000 psi. The military were referring to a CUP level, not a pzioelectric reading, which is the norm. There are two measuring systems that give different readings for the same pressure. The PSi and CUP limits for the two rounds are about the same.

Here is a 10 round pressure test of some IVI ball ammo. Note the typical big ES and SD