Enfield #4 mk1 info

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Grendeb

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Anyone have info on this enfield I just purchased from a guy who bought it from a ww2 canadian soldier deployed in italy. It came with original bullets, a baillonnet and im pretty sure the mag was replaced or copy.
Other than 1943 I don't know much about it since there is so many things about these rifles any input would be appreciated.






 
So, the BNP stamp says the it was nitro proofed in Britain, and the "England" stamp on the wrist says it was in British military ownership at one point. Would be really unusual to have a Canadian Soldier be able to ID this particular rifle as the one that he carried in Italy, and then that he actually acquired it. Please, anyone, feel free to correct me??
 
He may mean that he bought it from a soldier, who had been deployed to Italy at some point, in mutually exclusive events? Then again, he may have managed to get home with it. Stranger things have happened after all.

It's very nice either way. That rifling looks almost pristine.
 
Its a British No4 Mk1 I read somewhere Canadians used British No4s in Italy until they could be armed with Canadian equipment. it could be from one of the equipment books by Law.
Most of the wartime Long Branch No4s only had two groove barrels. Later barrels had more grooves 5 or possibly 6 grooves.
 
With the ENGLAND marking it was a post-war export from the UK, not brought home by a veteran. Looks like it was overhauled in 46 or 48 - the marking isn't clear. Typical mixture of parts for a UK overhauled rifle. It's made by BSA Shirley BTW. Nice bore, should be a good shooter.
 
Potashminer said:
So, the BNP stamp says the it was nitro proofed in Britain, and the "England" stamp on the wrist says it was in British military ownership at one point. Would be really unusual to have a Canadian Soldier be able to ID this particular rifle as the one that he carried in Italy, and then that he actually acquired it. Please, anyone, feel free to correct me??
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Lots of veterans bought surplus rifles from the hardware store when they got home, but not the one they used in combat. The England stamp as RRCo stated is an export mark, stamped post-war. Same as the bayonet, not WW2 era. Receiver looks painted, so likely arsenal rebuilt post war and refinished in "Suncorite" . Any dates stamped on the bottom of the ammo casings?
I miss Smellie :(
 
I have a no1 mk3 with a similar story. Widow of a guy who just died in his 60s said that his grandfather brought it home from the war. Looks like an almost complete Savage with a five grove barrel. I totally agree with Frost Crack about things being lost in translation because in my case, this person may have returned from the war to buy a surplus rifle to commemorate his time abroad.
 
vinver said:
Lots of veterans bought surplus rifles from the hardware store when they got home, but not the one they used in combat. The England stamp as RRCo stated is an export mark, stamped post-war. Same as the bayonet, not WW2 era. Receiver looks painted, so likely arsenal rebuilt post war and refinished in "Suncorite" . Any dates stamped on the bottom of the ammo casings?
I miss Smellie :(
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Where is Smellie? Sock closet? I haven't seen a post from him in quite a while.
Nice rifle OP, don't shoot the old ammo, CT or the like still sell .303 Br. Save up your fired brass and reload.
 
The Queen did not allow departing soldiers to take their rifles with them when they left her employ.

So many people think their dad's or granddad's old Enfield is the one they used in the war.

More like they picked it up in the barrel at the hardware store for $9.95 or less.

Not like there was any shortage of them.

That British rifle has a very nice bore....very nice. Worth owning.

Too bad someone used vice grips to hold the thin upper band together to get the screw started. :rolleyes:
Meanwhile, it's an easy fingertip operation at worst.
 
George (smellie) is not well. As far as I know he still watches the threads when able but of course has other issues to deal with. steamyteabag is his wife and she posts once in a long while.

If I am correct, the "England" stamp on that rifle is a sold out of service stamp. In the years to come, if we are allowed to keep our firearms, that stamp may become a collectors item by itself.


This from Cantom;

QUOTE=cantom]I'm told he is okay. Not sick.

His name is George H. Armstrong and he's on Facebook I'm told.

He's been working on a political project lately, a new party he had a hand in forming as I recall.

Plus he got disgusted with a few people on CGN.

His wife is Twosteam (Jan) not Steamy Teabag! :HR:[/QUOTE]
 
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Don't shoot that old crappy corrosive ammo btw, that will plate that Cupronickel stuff into your bore, almost impossible to get it out, not to mention ruin that lovely bore with corrosion if you don't clean it properly and right away.

Just shoot clean modern ammo, as plinker777 already said.

The stock set is crying out for an immersion in raw or boiled linseed oil btw....they need regular maintenance.
 
The BNP stamp is 'Birmingham Nitro Proof'. I'm betting that there are a lot more stamps on this old stager that we have not been shown. In order that this rifle could be sold in the UK on the commercial market, it wa required to pass the UK Proof Testing - in London or Birmingham abd also be stamped with the chamber dimensions and calibre in inches, as well as the proof pressure. These stamps should be on the receiver near the barrel, or on the barrel near the receiver.

However, I've seen many L-E like that that only had the BNP stamps as they were going straight to the USA. The England state was NOT a British SOOS mark, but a requirement of the US government to show the country of origin of the imported arm. The usual SOOS stamp is a large 'asterisk' formed by stamping two opposing 'broad arrow' government property stamps.

tac
 
tacfoley said:
The BNP stamp is 'Birmingham Nitro Proof'. I'm betting that there are a lot more stamps on this old stager that we have not been shown. In order that this rifle could be sold in the UK on the commercial market, it wa required to pass the UK Proof Testing - in London or Birmingham abd also be stamped with the chamber dimensions and calibre in inches, as well as the proof pressure. These stamps should be on the receiver near the barrel, or on the barrel near the receiver.

However, I've seen many L-E like that that only had the BNP stamps as they were going straight to the USA. The England state was NOT a British SOOS mark, but a requirement of the US government to show the country of origin of the imported arm. The usual SOOS stamp is a large 'asterisk' formed by stamping two opposing 'broad arrow' government property stamps.

tac
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Thanks for the clarification tac.
 
few other points

As I recall the Canadians in Italy were still issued the No1MkIII for the most part.

that rifle produced in '43 now has a barrel with 5 grooves not what I would expect, it should have a 2 groove barrel so it's had a post war FTR.

so as others have pointed out, not likely that it was the same rifle that granddad carried in Italy.
 
It's a British No4MkI Lee Enfield, made in 1943.

The upper band is Long Branch Canadian with a C Broad Arrow, which someone has clamped and marked up with vice grips.
The bayonet is a postwar No9 blade bayonet.

If you take pics of the markings on the bottom of the buttstock and the forend, we can tell you more about where the wood set was made. Probably Brit but you never know.
 
bearhunter said:
George (smellie) is not well. As far as I know he still watches the threads when able but of course has other issues to deal with. steamyteabag is his wife and she posts once in a long while.

If I am correct, the "England" stamp on that rifle is a sold out of service stamp. In the years to come, if we are allowed to keep our firearms, that stamp may become a collectors item by itself.


This from Cantom;

QUOTE=cantom]I'm told he is okay. Not sick.

His name is George H. Armstrong and he's on Facebook I'm told.

He's been working on a political project lately, a new party he had a hand in forming as I recall.

Plus he got disgusted with a few people on CGN.

His wife is Twosteam (Jan) not Steamy Teabag! :HR:
Click to expand...
[/QUOTE]

I knew he was well read (educated individual) and was a writer in the past, great to hear he's not sick (physically) and just sick and tired of some of the nonsense that goes on...I wish him well, and thank him and those like him who helped this inexperienced Enfield shooter in the history and significance of the fine rifle in all of it's marks.

:cheers: Smellie!
 
Grendeb said:
Ok so can you all forget about the oldman story and give me some info about the rifle?
Click to expand...

The "oldman" who you are talking about has done a lot over the years to educate CGN members about Lee Enfield rifles.

I see no connection between this rifle and its possible use by Canadian troops in Italy, although it may have been privately owned by a Canadian Army veteran in the post-war time frame. As the saying goes, "buy the rifle, not the story".
 
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