Enfield #4 receiver questions

[points]

Hi guys. The question is, there is a variation in the receivers on the #4s and I can't find a write up anywhere. I have the Stratton vol 2 and there is no mention.
Left socket in the photo is a LB 44 mk1*
Right is a ROF 43 mk1
Notice the difference in the sockets and the butts.
Anybody know about this variation? Which manufatureres made it and when?
Thanks
<a href="http://s1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee479/pointlesser/?action=view&current=buttsockets004copy.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee479/pointlesser/buttsockets004copy.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobu

cket"></a>

 

[TheTooner]

Yes, there is a difference. I don't know all the variations. My No.4Mk.2 (1954 ROF Faz) is like the one on the right in your picture. I have noticed a 1942 Long Branch No.4Mk.1*, it was like your Long Branch. Which ROF is your 1943 No.4Mk.1?

 

[Grizzly Adams]

Yes, there is a difference. I don't know all the variations. My No.4Mk.2 (1954 ROF Faz) is like the one on the right in your picture. I have noticed a 1942 Long Branch No.4Mk.1*, it was like your Long Branch. Which ROF is your 1943 No.4Mk.1?

Think the Mk4.1* has the trigger mounted on the receiver not the trigger guard. Have one, but i can't remember the exact designation.

Grizz

 

[points]

Tooner. It's a Fazakerley.
Grizzley. It's the shape of the butt socket that is the difference.

I also have a Savage 43 mk1* that has the 3/4 round butt socket and a Parker Hale that I will assume has a British made receiver and it has a full round socket.
So the 2 North Americans have 3/4 round sockets and the 2 Brits have full round.
The LB and Savage butts won't fit the Brit receivers without shaving down the flat part on the socket end.
That's all I know

 

[TheTooner]

Think the Mk4.1* has the trigger mounted on the receiver not the trigger guard. Have one, but i can't remember the exact designation.

Grizz

I just meant the difference in the shape of the butt socket. The different trigger mountings are another matter. The No.4Mk.2 introduced mounting the trigger on the receiver, the previous marks of No.4 (i.e. Mk.1 and Mk.1* ) had it attached to the trigger guard. After the Mk.2 was introduced, any of the earlier marks that went through FTR had their triggers changed to attaching on the receiver. That's where Mk.1/2 and Mk.1/3 come from. The former is a Mk.1 with the trigger modification. The latter is a Mk.1* with the trigger modification.

 

[RRCo.]

AFAIK the full round socket on the right was a manufacturing simplification introduced in the UK during WWII. In Canada we kept the original No.4 socket design you see above, which was in turn borrowed from the SMLE. The longer socket is stronger and resists twisting a bit better.

The shoulder on the left side of the original design was only there at all to allow adequate material around the recess cut for the safety catch.

It's interesting that in the No.5 Jungle Carbine, they didn't revert to the original shape to save weight, but the machinery was already set up to do the No.4s that way and the butts, so it was probably easier to make the lightening cuts somewhere else.

 

[points]

Cool. Thanks guys.