Enfield B.S.A co. SHt L.E. 1918 III* .22 training rifle Need HELP!!

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muddog

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brock ,Ontario
I need help guys from an expert as I have this beautiful, not bored and sleeved, the numbers all match bolt,receiver,barrel and bayonet piece below the muzzle.
this is the old style .22 bolt. it has a marking disc inset in the stock with P.W. stamp.
very dark wood excellent shape non refinished,
the elevation sight is not there as would interfere with rear peep.
on the left side of wrist where safety is no markings.
On the barrel it has BNP with crown above beside going right .22LR then .610
below 8 TONs PER box" which means per square inch
just below the BOX symbol .18 which I think is the yr.
a few other crowns and BNP stamps and inspection stamps through out. there is an arrow but no letter.
Please need HELP with this as it has been alot of hrs.
I know the basics SMLE came after 1926 there is the serial # 12### with a J on top
Thanks in advance.
PM me and I will call you to chat about this.
 
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We need clear pictures to give an accurate assessment as to what you have. Take pics of the left, right side of the gun and anywhere there are proof marks present.

Post pics and you will receive the answers you seek!
 
I have no Idea how to post pictures in here.
ty, I will try when I get home. If you can Pm? the stock is very dark, no cracks, lots of the usual little dings. not refinished in anyway. all in tacked except for the the elevation site is gone due to this funny type of peep site fixed. Mag is hollowed, no follower. This gun has no refitting marks, solid barrel. it does have the rear site ears. anything you can give me from what I gave you would be good. I have done alot of homework on this one. and can not find a match anywhere. strange.
 
I just found out what the 22L then after.610 is. this gun was not made for todays, 22LR cartrige at 36 0r 40gr bullet. it was made for the 29 gr bullet same case size. smaller bullet making over all length shorter.
Pretty interesting. I would have been trying scrub that bore down to make a 22lr fit. is this correct?
 
Here's pics for the enfield gurus, the op sent them to me as I offered to post them!
C2AF33B6-FD7E-4D7E-87B9-2463BC527806-1805-000005B41EDBA4D6.jpg


51FC48CE-B121-4615-B9B2-6FF4D8CB4076-1805-000005B419580494.jpg


BFD78A18-FD18-4F61-AA97-45F447A6D0B0-1805-000005B40F66755B.jpg


8705B667-5FF4-46A8-8F15-DD2DE03771D2-1805-000005B33CF80B9C-1.jpg


E58B833F-A9F8-4EAD-A34A-4EBEC51A9C97-1805-000005B35B04E9B9.jpg


522713A4-679C-4B32-9796-6E01F9799826-1805-000005B355A39A40.jpg


68E015CA-A507-445D-9B1E-04A1D2F10AF9-1805-000005B35123B1A8.jpg


EF0C78E7-A52A-4D5B-A896-451C251F1DD8-1805-000005B3462C5F11.jpg


AE5320C7-05E3-41E7-867F-C015151CD5BB-1805-000005B34BD40A3A.jpg
 
Okay, I have looked the photos over very carefully and, the more I look, the more confused I get.

This started off in Birmingham in 1918. It was a .303" calibre Short Magazine Lee-Enfield rifle Mark III*, the standard late-Wartime combat rifle.

The Barrel which is ON it is the original Barrel; the /!\ is the British Government ownership mark and the "'18" is the year of manufacture/installation.

The rifle does not have the regular ".303" 2.222 18.5 TONS/" square because these are markings which were put on the rifles after the SECOND World War, when they were being surplussed.

The Barrel HAS been tubed with a .22" RF liner; you can see where the tube was installed if you look hard enough: see the high point on the crown: that's where the tube was soldered in. Some of the people who tubed these things were VERY good at their work and this is the evidence. WHO the tube was made by we do not know, but it well could have been A.G. Parker; he was active immediately following the Great War (I have a rifle he built in 1920) and he made some of the BEST liners ever produced. Secret to shooting them with modern ammo is to avoid the hot-rock loads, stay with Remington Subsonics or Match ammunition.

The Conversion Proofs are normal for what they are on a Birmingham-built rifle. Standard length for the .22LR cartridge case is .595"; the chamber in this rifle is .620", so there is lots of room. It is NOT long enough to accommodate some of the modern hypervelocity cartridges. It SHOULD handle regular .22LR with the 40-grain RN bullet; that was standard at that time.

What REALLY interested me is that vague crossed-flags-with-DCP stamp: that is DOMINION OF CANADA PROOF and it means that the rifle was tested here in Canada for Service use with the Canadian Army. It is MOST unusual to find this on a British-built rifle for it indicates a SECOND COMPLETE PROOFING of the rifle.

That rear aperture sight is one I have not encountered previously. A good close-up or 2 or 3 would be very much appreciated.

The old girl has a long history. She is 95 years old and likely spent 90 of those years as a .22. I have a whole piece of Raisin Pie that sez that if you feed her what she wants, she can STILL make an impressive score.

Thanks for showing!

VERY nice toy!
 
Mr. Smellie, Thank you so much for taking your time to review this rifle for me I have spent allot of time researching.
and speaking with allot of enfield collectors. And most have not been able to answer me or give me some clear insides as they said this was a very unusual trainer. since I put these pictures up or shall I say thanks to Steve! for that and having him refer you to me. I have not had a response except to buy the rifle.
I have seen similar rifles to this one and found two of the same rear sights one on a 1915 with a parker rifled stamp on front of muzzle. I was told at a gun show that the barrel was a solid not a bored and sleeved go figure.
If anything else you find please notify me. this is such a fun journey.
also there is that crossed flags on the bottom of the stock like you mentioned. every other .22 trainer usually has markings on the safety side. not one on this either.
TY
 
P.S. the regiment or ID disc, what is the P.W. stand for prince of wales?
also one rear site just like that you can see on PS militaria they have a trainer with that sight.
ty again
 
LOL, I do not know what I have, lol as far as I thought they were rare to find but allot out there,
I have a few other un answered guns that cannot be dated as companies records got burnt in a fire only thing I have is matching numbers 1176 on a dbl barrel and a BHP,
you are a great man for helping me this far. I would like to see if I can find a bit more on it like that id disc and did they come with a matching bayonet? I would like to track doown that and the strap. maybe a dust cover. lol
 
That rifle did not come with an attached Dust Cover, although there was a canvas action cover. You can find them for $15 or so.

There was also a canvas Muzzle Cover made, but they are not too common. Kept the dust out.

Sling would have been the Pattern 1908 web sling; sell for about $10. There WERE Target slings, but shooting was usually TAUGHT with the same sling as a .303 would be using: Pattern 1908.

A piece of precision equipment such as a range .22 would not have been used with a bayonet: too much chance of damage to that all-important bedding.

I am thinking that likely your rifle saw MANY years of military Service. Once the Ross was gone, the next rifle to use the aperture sight would have been the Number 4, which only came along in WW2.

Hope this helps.
 
"Smellie" is right on with his description. Looks like the last post for this one was Canada. The rear sight is a Canadian training site. Very nice rifle with geat history..worthy of in any collection.

Your picture of the barrel knox shows a "hole" top dead centre....is this through to the chamber? Tapped (threaded)?
 
Was it necessary for you to remove your pants before taking pictures of the rifle, or did the rifle buy you a few drinks....and one thing lead to another?
 
LOL. one thing lead to another. this started out as that .22 you have in your safe is an old real trainer. not a safe queen like my collection of pistols. I do not or did not understand the history of what I have. this is one of three military and two other no name guessing shotguns.
I am more into pistols.
maybe rethinking this as it is really fun but very time oriented and need to dial it in. which is very hard causing me to drink,drop my pants and pull my hair.
it is like trying to get into pants that i whore fifty yrs ago. better yet finding pants I whore fifty yrs ago.
 
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