What was the reason and purpose for the brass butt disc on the right side of Enfield rifles? I imagine it was to facilitate regimental markings but was rarely if ever used for that (although other countries did). It was removed for expediency late WW1 but came back post war. Why????
Enfield butt disc...why?
- Thread starter bogusiii
- Start date
From what I've been told the stock discs were an effective way to track the maintenance schedule of an individual service weapon without having to try and drag paperwork around from armory to armory as it travelled throughout it's service life.
I'm guessing that they were not used at certain points due to higher operational tempos and the rifles were being slammed out of the factories as fast as possible and nobody was too concerned about the armorer maintenance schedule when they were barely able to arm units for battle.
-S.
- Location
- WMU248 near Edmonton
unit and rack marking
removed because captured rifles would identify to the germans what units they were facing.
brought back because its a good way to keep inventory
actually thinking about it back in 2003 working with the Brits they still ran tew weapons lockups based on rack numbers, I had a weapons card that I would hand over to the armour and he would then go to the rack and pull my weapon, the rack number would be noted in the leger, and when I signed it back in they would look at the leger to see what rack number to put it back in.
removed because captured rifles would identify to the germans what units they were facing.
brought back because its a good way to keep inventory
actually thinking about it back in 2003 working with the Brits they still ran tew weapons lockups based on rack numbers, I had a weapons card that I would hand over to the armour and he would then go to the rack and pull my weapon, the rack number would be noted in the leger, and when I signed it back in they would look at the leger to see what rack number to put it back in.
jmichelin84
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Big Land, nL
Call the Newfoundland regiment would actually have their dog tags put into the rifle stock too I've seen a couple of them in the museum
- Location
- Richmond, BC, CANADA
The butt discs were simply a way for a holding unit to mark the rifle as being for that unit and also a number (rack number as some call it) within that unit.
The QM could simply inventory based upon the 2 to 3 digit number on the disc. A soldier could tell at a glance which rifle was his in a rack. When the rifle was transferred, the disc could be removed and replaced with another one, leaving the rifle undamaged. By the way any marked EFD on the front are recent fakes.
Contrast this with the Ross rifles. On those, not only was the location (Quebec), the Mark (model) of rifle and serial number including year stamped into the right side of the butt, but also any issue markings. When a rifle was transferred to another unit, the old markings were cancelled and a new markings applied. The result is a mess, BUT is delightful for owners trying to figure out where their rifle as used.
The QM could simply inventory based upon the 2 to 3 digit number on the disc. A soldier could tell at a glance which rifle was his in a rack. When the rifle was transferred, the disc could be removed and replaced with another one, leaving the rifle undamaged. By the way any marked EFD on the front are recent fakes.
Contrast this with the Ross rifles. On those, not only was the location (Quebec), the Mark (model) of rifle and serial number including year stamped into the right side of the butt, but also any issue markings. When a rifle was transferred to another unit, the old markings were cancelled and a new markings applied. The result is a mess, BUT is delightful for owners trying to figure out where their rifle as used.
So my follow-up question. If these were for unit identification and rack numbering, why do virtually no Enfields have anything stamped on these discs? In the hundreds of Enfields I've seen or owned I can't recall any with such markings. You'd think at least some of those would have been issued or spent time in the rack.
Eaglelord17
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Sault Ste. Marie
I would imagine most Lee Enfields were refurbed then sold off as surplus at a later date. As mentioned most had them removed during the war as it was a identifier, and I imagine after refurb any that had them would likely have them removed as it no longer belongs to the unit it was marked to.
Hmmmm.....yeah, I can sorta see the logic but have to call it as a "battlefield myth". I am sure the dead body laying within arms reach of the found rifle or a bunch of PWs being herded back to the lines would answer who the Germans had facing them over the way.
OK so my follow up follow up question. Are there surviving examples of rifles (or even the discs) with unit and rack numbers? When there was mass surplus post war you have to wonder why virtually all the Enfields were scrubbed clean of those unit and rack marked discs.
I've had this one for almost 30 years and have not shot it for almost as long. I posted pics years ago but that was with an old photo sharing account. All matching except the bolt. I guess that would have been too much to ask.
Gents. Almost all Brit rifles with brass marking discs, whether Martini, Lee Metford, or SMLE issue prior to WW1 had unit marks and rack numbers stamped into the disc for unit identification. That effort was dropped in wartime for expediency. All Mk III SMLE rifles were reworked after WW1to allow units to have totally serviceable rifles and thus any marked disc was exchanged for an unmarked one so that if the new unit chose to do so they could have discs marked. Not many regular service did but extra service units were prone to. When Canada got their rifles mostly in 1917 any marked discs were removed and vacant ones installed. The C broad arrow stamp can be found on SMLEs as well as CN and sometimes individual unit marks that are stamped after the war in Canada. Canada took years reworking rifles but a huge impetus was made late 30's for serviceability as can be seen by replaced barrel dates. I have seen Canadian rifles that simply flipped over a marked disc in the butt to allow a vacant surface that can be stamped. Steel discs were intended for DP rifles. I hope this explanation is clear. John
