Enfield head space help

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Turkeygun

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Need Enfield No4 expert help. Suspect my head space is getting to much. I put my no go gauge in and the bolt just about fully closes NOT quite mind you but almost. Does this indicate that I should be looking for a longer bolt head??

First pic shows my miked bolt head .632" Tho other problem I have is I don't know what size bolt head I got now because the next two pics show a number 2 on the side. Then a number 1 on the top????

What should I do if the bolt does not fully close but almost is my head space still good? I want to reload...





 
Headspace of the RIFLE is okay, but what about the AMMO?

There is NO ammo made today which agrees with the original military spec.

So you settle on what kind of ammo you want to shoot, go buy 100 rounds. Then head to your local Dollar Store and pick up a packet of PONY-TAIL TIES from the girls' department. They are little thin elastics, cost 1 buck for 500.

You put a pony-tail tie around the back end of each cartridge, just ahead of the rim, and shoot your ammo like that. There should be light compression on chambering; this is good. The pony-tail ties hold the cartridges back against the bolt-face while the rifle fires. You are shooting a rifle with ZERO headspace.

Now you get a Lee Collet Die and NECK-SIZE this brass and keep it segregated for this rifle, no others.

You are on your way to ACCURATE ammunition.

Hope his helps.
 
1. what is the length of your "no go gauge"? it should be .074

2. if your bolt does not fully close on the .074 gauge you have correct headspace.

3. If your bolt doesn't close on .064 your headspace is far too tight

4. Your bolt head is a No.1. Having measured several hundred No4 bolt heads, the number on the side really doesn't mean very much
 
As per Peter Laidler, light thumb and forefinger pressure only. When you start to feel resistance stop pushing. Then measure from the bottom of the bolt handle and the rifle. If it is less than .050 than you need to go to the next size bolt head. If it is .050 or more gap than you are good. Never under-headspace a rifle.
 
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As SMELLIE pointed out, the ORIGINAL .303 specifications differed from todays. I might suspect you are using a more modern headspace guage and not a Military one. They do differ!

Originally, Military ammunition was designed to be shot ---ONCE---and really not reloaded. They did not really care too much about the cases, except maybe to gather them up on the Ranges and use them for scrap metal. Since we like to shoot our Milsurps, reloading cartridges makes sense economically and even for practical use as some ammunition is hard to find or even non-existant and we have to make our own cases.

The problem with the .303 is full length resizing a case will weaken it. In most .303 rifles, the chambers are slightly oversized so the brass case expands considerably. Full length sizing will stress this case as it sizes it down much more.

People who shoots .303 a lot tend to segregate their cases for individual rifles, and neck size the brass only. This gives a minimum stress on the brass and the cases last MUCH longer. Annealing the necks of the cases will give even more usable life to a cartridge. Take SMELLIE's advice on the rubber bands for the first firing in a rifle. After the first firing, the case has expanded to custom fit YOUR rifle's chamber and neck sizing to simply provide enough tension to hold the bullet in the case is all that is needed. BTW, you really do not need to crimp the bullet in place as crimping can be harmful to your brass. Do, however, buy a LEE case length trimmer and trim your cases to proper length, and check them every five firings.
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smellie said:
Headspace of the RIFLE is okay, but what about the AMMO?

There is NO ammo made today which agrees with the original military spec.

So you settle on what kind of ammo you want to shoot, go buy 100 rounds. Then head to your local Dollar Store and pick up a packet of PONY-TAIL TIES from the girls' department. They are little thin elastics, cost 1 buck for 500.

You put a pony-tail tie around the back end of each cartridge, just ahead of the rim, and shoot your ammo like that. There should be light compression on chambering; this is good. The pony-tail ties hold the cartridges back against the bolt-face while the rifle fires. You are shooting a rifle with ZERO headspace.

Now you get a Lee Collet Die and NECK-SIZE this brass and keep it segregated for this rifle, no others.

You are on your way to ACCURATE ammunition.

Hope his helps.
Click to expand...

Smellie, regarding the pony tail ties. I got a pack but they are a little big and need to be folded over twice. it is very tight to close the bolt (did this with a prand new PRVI case). Is this okay or do I need to find smaller ones?
 
Commercial headspace settings are .064 GO and .067 NO-GO, military is .064 to .074

headspcegauges_zps7e649c49.jpg


I do not know who came up with the pony tail rubber band idea BUT round rubber o-rings should be used. Not only does the o-ring hold the case against the bolt face, when the o-ring is compressed as the bolt closes it centers the rear of the case in the chamber promoting equal case expansion and thus accuracy.

o-ring_zpsfc086c19.jpg


If your cases have a small base diameter like the HXP case below you can end up with unequal expansion at the base of the case. If the case is not centered in the chamber you will end up with a warped banana shaped case and bad accuracy from reloaded cases.

privihxp-1_zpsdb98083e.jpg


alignment_zpsda6fbb08.jpg


A warped banana shaped case when resting on its base would look like the Leaning Tower of Pisa. When these cases are reloaded the bullet will not be aligned with the axis of the bore and your group size will "INCREASE".

leaningtowerofpisa_zps782220f0.jpg


And the banana shaped case is not something I made up and is magnified in the Enfields larger diameter chambers.

runout_zpsfe87d011.jpg


Again I do not know who came up with pony tail rubber band idea BUT centering the case in the rear of the chamber is very important.

Use the proper size rubber o-ring that compresses uniformly and centers the case and not someones pony tail rubber band idea or weed whacker string. Parashooter told everyone to lube their cases when fire forming cases which increases bolt thrust and can damage your Enfield rifle. And after posting information on this fact he changed his "Headspace 101" to using weed whacker cord and another bad idea.

Below is more bad information posted by the forums moderator at a well known Enfield forum. The moderator states the Enfields chambers were drilled off center, when in fact he has a warped banana shaped case as I described above and the case tilted like the Leaning Tower of Pisa. Some of us have runout gauges and inspect cases before posting information on fire forming Enfield cases and don't post garbage information.

303_Headspacing_B_zps84a03645.jpg


Pony tail rubber bands were NEVER used with the original postings, and as long as you understand the two reasons for using a rubber o-ring.
1. Holding the case against the bolt face
2. Centering the case in the chamber.

You will end up with good accurate cases worth reloading.
 
5THBATT said:
Bigedp51, wasn't there also a claim they were drilled off center to help with drainage from rain entering the muzzle!
Click to expand...

There are MANY retarded ideas on the internet, anyone with two fingers and a computer can write anything they want to, right or wrong. In the same forum with the "off center chambers" another moderator will show you how to bed the Enfield rifle with credit cards and beer cans.
(MANY, MANY stupid retarded ideas)

The Enfield rifle isn't like the Mauser type action, the bolt face isn't recessed to center the rear of the case and it doesn't have a claw extractor to hold the case against the bolt face.

supportingboltface_zps6e1fc145.jpg


Nothing supports the rear of the case once the bolt is closed on the Enfield rifle and the cartridge lays in the bottom of the chamber. The extractor moves to the right and away from the case as the bolt is closed leaving the case unsupported.

No4bolthead_zps17c2e834.jpg


Proper fireforming using a o-ring centers the case in the chamber and thereafter the case can headspace on the shoulder and be "MUCH" better centered in the chamber.

Below, after fireforming using the o-ring method which "CENTERS" the rear of the case in the chamber you can just neck size your cases. A case forming and trim die can be used as a shoulder bump die to bump the shoulder of the case back when it is a snug fit in the chamber.

zeroheadspace_zpsbaf7579c.jpg
 
bigedp51 said:
There are MANY retarded ideas on the internet, anyone with two fingers and a computer can write anything they want to, right or wrong. In the same forum with the "off center chambers" another moderator will show you how to bed the Enfield rifle with credit cards and beer cans.
(MANY, MANY stupid retarded ideas)

The Enfield rifle isn't like the Mauser type action, the bolt face isn't recessed to center the rear of the case and it doesn't have a claw extractor to hold the case against the bolt face.

supportingboltface_zps6e1fc145.jpg


Nothing supports the rear of the case once the bolt is closed on the Enfield rifle and the cartridge lays in the bottom of the chamber. The extractor moves to the right and away from the case as the bolt is closed leaving the case unsupported.

No4bolthead_zps17c2e834.jpg


Proper fireforming using a o-ring centers the case in the chamber and thereafter the case can headspace on the shoulder and be "MUCH" better centered in the chamber.

Below, after fireforming using the o-ring method which "CENTERS" the rear of the case in the chamber you can just neck size your cases. A case forming and trim die can be used as a shoulder bump die to bump the shoulder of the case back when it is a snug fit in the chamber.

zeroheadspace_zpsbaf7579c.jpg
Click to expand...

That's why I do up my Lee Enfield projects using the Brewer locking collar system to ensure proper headspace.
AIA Enfields are done the same way. The Savage system makes so much sense that it's now used by many
gunmakers today to save on set-up cost. The home tinkerer benefits the most from this method.:)
 
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