Enfield Identification...

XRAYGUY

XRAYGUY

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Hello gentlemen... lately I've been helping an elderly friend go through some old iron thats been laying around and gathering dust.

He dragged out this old Enfield and we both scratched our heads trying to figure out what, exactly, he has...

Could someone out there let us know what this is...?


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This appears to be some sort of volley sight...? It also appears that this was an add-on as it obscures some markings as shown in other photos.

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There appears to be some sort of magazine cut-off... this is with it in.

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And this is with it out.

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The right side of the wrist is stamped VR Enfield 1892


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It appears that the receiver and the barrel have both been renumbered... an arsenal refurbishment, perhaps...?

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Many many proofs and markings are visible.

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The left side of the wrist is stamped 1909 CLLE


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We're quite sure that the stock has been "sporterized", and the front sight does not appear to be original either.

ANY information would be very much appreciated.

Thank you.
 
It was, in its final incarnation, a Charger Loading Lee Enfield, Mk I, I believe. That's what the CLLE on the left cheek indicates. From the right cheek, it does appear to have originally been a Lee Metford II* (tough to read on the photo). As Ganderite says, would have been worth a lot in original wood. One just sold for $2,850 at Collectors source.

milsurpo
 
It's a "Charger Loading Lee Enfield". Originally a Lee Metford, I bet it was re-barrelled with an Enfield rifled barrel. The charger part is the bridge over the receiver used to load the magazine with five round charger clips. The bridge was an add-on and hence the name "CLLE" stamped on the left wrist what it was done.
 
The old girl has been through a few changes. Started out as a Lee Metford, likely re-barreled sometime while still in military service to Enfield rifling, changed to "Charger Loading Lee Enfield" in 1909, heavens old knows where she got to after that, then "sportered". An "on hands" examination might even tell who did the sport job. What are the letters just above the 1909? This would likely tell who converted it to CLLE.

I have one similar, went through the same changes and was sportered by BSA.

No need to call Ganderite a troll.
 
Front sight looks correct and about the right distance behind the muzzle. The bbl might be original length, in which case the old girl could be a likely candidate for restoration. What is the bbl length from breech end to muzzle?
 
No need to call Ganderite a troll.[/QUOTE]

Definitely no need to do that.
Sometimes truth hurts but he called it like it is.
Sadly it is worth more as parts than as a rifle.
 
Thank you, gentlemen... and my apologies to Ganderite that I was so easily offended... there just seems to be a lot of keyboard sniping taking place on the threads lately.

Anyway... you guys rock! This was exactly the information that I was looking for!

I'll take the barrel measurements the next time I'm visiting my friend.

Much appreciated, fellas...

- Rob
 
My comment was not so much about this particular rifle. The mistake was made a long time ago under different conditions.

I recall buying a mint Long Branch at Eatons for $11.00 and "sporterizing" it. (1959)

What erks me is that the practice continues.
 
Ganderite said:
My comment was not so much about this particular rifle. The mistake was made a long time ago under different conditions.

I recall buying a mint Long Branch at Eatons for $11.00 and "sporterizing" it. (1959)

What erks me is that the practice continues.
Click to expand...

hey, my hunting buddy bought a new in grease enfield sniper for about 20$ back in the early 60's from army and navy. didn't like the scope so that come off, wood was too cumbersome so that came off, didn't like the mounts so they got cut off, drilled a few holes in the receiver to mount a scope onto and he had a great moose gun..... did i mentioned he snipped the barrel to get rid of the lugs..... he cries everytime he tells me the story and i cry along with him.....
 
gregc said:
hey, my hunting buddy bought a new in grease enfield sniper for about 20$ back in the early 60's from army and navy. didn't like the scope so that come off, wood was too cumbersome so that came off, didn't like the mounts so they got cut off, drilled a few holes in the receiver to mount a scope onto and he had a great moose gun..... did i mentioned he snipped the barrel to get rid of the lugs..... he cries everytime he tells me the story and i cry along with him.....
Click to expand...

Those are unicorn tears, man... wow... what a story. That's crazy. Thanks for sharing that...
 
As noted above, the rifle started out in 1892 as a Lee Metford Mk.II. By the markings on the barrel reinforce, I can see that the rifle has at one point seen Naval Service. The Navy took on a refurbishment program recycling many of the older pattern long Lee rifles coming from the army which had been updated with the new Short Magazine Lee Enfield. The rifles were fitted with new barrels if needed and spiffed up to be good as new.

I see P/N/3 which denotes Portsmouth Naval Workshop number 3. The rifle was in there getting work done in April 1907. These rifles were held on board ships and many saw little if any service. Some Naval rifles are real gems in collections,

Later it was surplused out to the public and sold through the British Gun Trade pre 1954.

In days pre 1924, the barrel was the main component of the rifle that carried the serial number, a throw back to the days of muzzle loaders. If the barrel was changed out, the receiver was renumbered to match the barrel.
After 1924, the directive was that the receiver was the main component and if the barrel was changed out, the barrel would be marked with the receiver number.
Usually, if a gun has been renumbered, it suggests that it was done by a military armourer. As to why a new number on both????

A possible scenario for the re-numbering could be;- Rifle started out with serial 1809C on both receiver and barrel. Barrel was changed out pre 1924 and receiver was renumbered 49222 to mach the barrel.
Later, post 1924, the barrel was changed out again with a used barrel, and the replacement barrel was numbered to match the receiver, 49222 (which by the way, is a BSA 5 digit serial number, so the first barrel change was with a BSA barrel, current one is Enfield made)).
I note that the sights on the current barrel are for the earlier Mk.VI cartridge, these are not the ones that would be fitted with a charger loader conversion. But never say never with an enfield.
The rifle is old enough that parts could have been changed out by any number of civilian owners.

It is an interesting variation on a variation. I spend hours reading and researching a rifles markings.
Sporter or full military, the markings can tell a story.
 
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