Enfield restoration discussion

Dodosmike

Dodosmike

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In the sticks near North Bay ON!
I beg your pardon, but I have a question that might be best posed here, so sorry for the hyjack.

At what point does one restore an Enfield? I have a Savage No4 Mk1 (1942) and a No4 Mk1 Fez. Both appear to be complete (to me) and uncut but both have sport stocks. I read somewhere, here, or milsurp.com that a factory short stock was used on "select" Savage made Enfields. Is that true? IF so, how does one identify a factory short stock? I should have printed or screenshot that when I read it, and I haven't been able to relocate that bit of text.

The Savage has a * on the action. Still searching for that bit of data. Has a two groove barrel. 600/300yd (battle?) sights.
The Fez is all number matching. Electro pen data on the side and is dated 1/49. adjustable arpature sight,

Debating selling them as is or keeping one and "restoring" it, to the best of my ability. Just need to determine which one may have, if any, collectability going forward

Any suggestions?

I see Marstar has (had?) No4 Mk1 new stock sets for $425. https://marstar.ca/product/lee-enfield-no4-mk1-complete-wood-set/
At this point my cost base on these rifles is very low.
 
Hi dodosmike, lots of questions in your post, but in a quick nutshell:

If you are going to spend time and money starting with a No4 sporter, I'd select the one with the best bore - and if matching number on the bolt, that's a bonus. It's never going to be a collectable gun, so might as well make it an as-decent as possible shooter. Second, take the time to look at what it means to actually do the work correctly - it's not a simple job where you just put parts together. Check this sticky, it's not an "how to" tutorial, but does hint at many of the details which require attention. Many have gone down that path not taking care of these details or not reading before doing. I've repaired so many badly put together Lee Enfield's I can't even count that high. :)

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1502728-What-questions-to-ask-when-shopping-for-a-desporterized-No4-Lee-Enfield

The star you mention on top of the barrel, from memory, it may mean pitting has been detected in the chamber, but I may be wrong.

In your cost estimate, factor in also not only the wood parts but all the metal bits which are also no longer super cheap, or easy to find. But parts can be found, so that's already a bit of good news.
 
louthepou said:
Hi dodosmike, lots of questions in your post, but in a quick nutshell:

If you are going to spend time and money starting with a No4 sporter, I'd select the one with the best bore - and if matching number on the bolt, that's a bonus. It's never going to be a collectable gun, so might as well make it an as-decent as possible shooter. Second, take the time to look at what it means to actually do the work correctly - it's not a simple job where you just put parts together. Check this sticky, it's not an "how to" tutorial, but does hint at many of the details which require attention. Many have gone down that path not taking care of these details or not reading before doing. I've repaired so many badly put together Lee Enfield's I can't even count that high. :)

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1502728-What-questions-to-ask-when-shopping-for-a-desporterized-No4-Lee-Enfield

The star you mention on top of the barrel, from memory, it may mean pitting has been detected in the chamber, but I may be wrong.

In your cost estimate, factor in also not only the wood parts but all the metal bits which are also no longer super cheap, or easy to find. But parts can be found, so that's already a bit of good news.
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First off thanks for taking time to reply, much appreciated.
Second, thanks for the link to the Enfield info.

On both rifles the bores look really nice to the naked eye, I've not had either magnafluxed. The grooves, from what I can tell, look fine. Barrels are bright with no obvious pitting, rust or marks inside them.

Are these two guns, from what Ive posted which may be hard to tell, run of the mill 303's or worthy or some form of "restoration" with any degree of future value (not necessarily collectability)? like said, my cost base low, almost zero. If I buy "new" wood (link above at $425) and find the parts, barrel bands etc, will still only be a $400 gun or $1000?

I guess what I'm trying to determine at this point is if a "restoration" is done (correctly) would I be adding to the "value" of these rifles?
Valued at $250 (now as a "303 sportster)) + Wood at $425 + metal bits (@$100?) = $775. Would this be worth $1000 on the retail market? $700? or still just a "revamped $250 303 that somebody (me, lol) Bubba'd" ?
 
If I were in your shoes, I would restore the No4 that is in the best condition. Don't worry too much about how much it would be worth after restoring. It will never be as much as an "original" condition one to a collector but definitely a lot more than a bubba'd sporter. A lot of potential buyers are not died in the wool collectors and are willing to pay good money for a good shooter that is in full stock condition, definitely a lot more than the ones that are "bubba'd". The way prices are going, it will only increase in value. The restoration process itself is worth the effort, you'll learn a lot and have a lot of fun with it. If you want to minimize your costs, just sell the other sporter. Looking at your pictures, I would probably pick the Fazakerly No4 for restoration. Good luck and have fun with it!
 
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RifleDude said:
If I were in your shoes, I would restore the No4 that is in the best condition. Don't worry too much about how much it would be worth after restoring. It will never be as much a an "original" condition one to a collector but definitely a lot more than a bubba'd sporter. A lot of potential buyers are not died in the wool collectors and are willing to pay good money for a good shooter that is in full stock condition, definitely a lot more than the ones that are "bubba'd". The way prices are going, it will only increase in value. The restoration process itself is worth the effort, you'll learn a lot and have a lot of fun with it. If you want to minimize your costs, just sell the other sporter. Looking at your pictures, I would probably pick the Fazakerly No4 for restoration. Good luck and have fun with it!
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Thanks for your input. I think, at this point, I'm on the same page as you. Sell one (I think I have a buyer for the Savage built .303) and redo the wood on the Fez, which is the better (IMO) and numbers matching gun.

Am I correct in thinking these are both $250-$350 guns as is? (can't see the muzzles in the pics, but they're uncut and still retain the bayonet lugs).
 
Another word of caution about duplicated stock parts (like the kit sold by Marstar). These, being new, and semi-inletted or semi-finished, will require a lot of work. I mean, not just a few hours. But more like days. And if finding used parts in good shape was easier, I'd suggest going that route.
 
louthepou said:
Another word of caution about duplicated stock parts (like the kit sold by Marstar). These, being new, and semi-inletted or semi-finished, will require a lot of work. I mean, not just a few hours. But more like days. And if finding used parts in good shape was easier, I'd suggest going that route.
Click to expand...

The woodwork part I'm ok with. I have a better than basic woodshop at home. The finishing part, a buddy has a cabinet spray booth, and he owes me a favour.....lol

But I understand where your coming from. If I could find original wood, not all cracked and 10 layers of who-knows what caked on, in a colour that was decent, Id go with that. Just trying to find complete "used" wood is a tad in itself so id imagine. Im guessing not all No4 Mk1 wood is the same.
 
Lou is right in that it can be finnicky to properly inlet the draws and achieve proper bedding. However, if you're as good with woodworking as you say you are, it should not be a problem, just take things slow. Measure twice and cut once is my motto. There's a ton of information on various forums that you should read before taking this on, milsurp.com is one of them. Check out the sub-forum "Jay Currah's Lee-Enfield Rifle Website" in particular for tips on bedding and other relevant information pertaining to the Lee Enfield types of rifles.
 
Dodosmike said:
The woodwork part I'm ok with. I have a better than basic woodshop at home. The finishing part, a buddy has a cabinet spray booth, and he owes me a favour.....lol

But I understand where your coming from. If I could find original wood, not all cracked and 10 layers of who-knows what caked on, in a colour that was decent, Id go with that. Just trying to find complete "used" wood is a tad in itself so id imagine. Im guessing not all No4 Mk1 wood is the same.
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Roger Wadham's book on accurizing the Lee Enfield is a good resource for standard stocking up too, his videos on youtube are also helpful.

www.youtube.com/user/EnfieldAccurizing/videos
 
Decided to concentrate my efforts elsewhere, the Fez number matching enfield posted above is up for sale. From my research it appears to be a worthy candidate for restoration, and was messaged that I try and sell it a bit of a premium over a "standard" enfield sporter. I've done that, but am willing to negotiate some, ya know, in case anybody's looking.
 
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