Enfield vs Mosin Nagant vs SVT-40

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Canadian80

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Hi all,

I'm looking for an accurate surplus rifle that I can maybe add a scope to and have some fun target shooting. What are the pros and cons to the above listed rifles? Any others I should consider? A few of the criteria I'm considering are accuracy, price of the rifle, and cost to shoot/availability of ammo. I really like the soviet guns - I have a Russian SKS, and Tokarev TT-33 already, so I'm sort of leaning towards one of the soviets. What's the accuracy like on the Mosin Nagant vs the SVT-40? Also, I had to add the Enfield cause everyone seems to have one. Why should I consider an Enfield over one of the soviets?

Anybody have any thoughts?

Thanks,
-Ryan
 
7.62x54R ammo can be a real pain in the butt to source when you need it, it's common in Europe but rather uncommon in North America.

I have 2 Mosins but no SVT, nothing wrong with the SVT but it tends to be harder to clean, and since most of the 54R ammo you'll find is corrosive, the SVT can become a major PITA in a hurry. Parts for Soviet firearms can also be harder to source.

Everybody and their grandmother has an Enfield, which means both parts and ammo will remain on store shelves for the foreseeable future.

My two cents anyway.
 
A sportered enfield is likely to be shot out, an original config is likely to cost more than a modern stevens which will shoot modern ammo and more accurately.

It's nothing against the enfield, those old guns have been a victim of their own popularity.

You can get suprisingly good accuracy out of a nagant full length 91/30, and the SVT is very good for an autoloader, but like all firearms, especially old ones, the accuracy depends on the individual gun, and not the brand name.

It's all about the barrel really, if you want a tack driving rifle, you can twist a new upmarket pipe on any old enfield or mosin. My buddy twisted a Lothar Walther on an old 91/30,just chambered it, trimmed two inches off the end, and crowned it, and it shoots bugholes now.

Looks ridiculous, with tool marks still on the barrel (he didn't contour it), but you can't get more accurate, cheaper.

The other way to do it is to keep buying them cheap by the crate, shooting them to see if they're tight, and selling all the poor shooters for about what you paid.

Works for all the old geezers on here. (No, I'm not joking, they really do exactly that).

P.S. Reload 54 Russ. I use graf brass, works nice.
 
Ooooooooh - I almost thought this was an enfield vs mosin vs mauser thread.... Still, I'll play.

Accuracy. All three can be accurate, but the svt with it's semi auto function can be a little harder to shoot accurately. I guess it's inherently a bit less accurate?

I've never had a problem finding any sort of ammo where I shoot, but I understand that some places have problems with this... I guess I should be happy I live in a big city.

Mosin - If it's in good condition, it can be a good shooter. A good one CAN be found cheaper than dirt/ about $100 plus shipping. However, if you want to find a good shooter quickly, I'd say expect to pay $175-$200 plus shipping. They can also be accurised relatively easily without bubba'ing them. They also have widely available repro scope mounts and scopes, which are fun, work well, and capable of good accuracy. The side mount aspect allows both scope and iron sights use without removing the scope. Some surplus ammo is available, but mostly you're looking at commercial or reloadable.

Enfield - Pricier than the mosin, they once again range massively in condition and price. Parts are very very common, and almost all competant canadian gunsmiths could probably disassemble and reassemble them in their sleep. Lots of available info, parts, and several styles of no-gunsmithing mounts for them. I've heard differing opinions on the mounts, but never used one, so don't know. Usually the scope setups won't allow you to use the iron sights. Ammo will have to be commercial or reloaded.

SVT-40 - Semi auto goodness. Almost always in g-vg condition, as most of them in the country that were brought in recently were re-arsenalled. Several repro snipers and actual snipers were in the EE recently. Don't remember the prices, but complete sniper kits are $600+++++ (??). Note that if you buy the scope base and scope seperately, even the repros are rare, that non sniper svt's won't mount a repro base without permanent modification, and I understand that the soviets gave up on this system and went back to the mosin/PU combo because they had a bugger of a time getting the SVT scope assy to stay zeroed. They're also really rough on brass, so it'll be a tadd more expensive to shoot.

They can also however be converted to look like SVT Dragunovs though, without any permanent modifications... so that's a major plus... the downside is that it takes A LOT of work.

So... personally I prefer bolt actions, and I don't like the enfield bolt, so that leaves me with a mosin, but it's your preference.... I've probably forgotten something, but it's a start.
 
I know nothing about the mosin or SVT-40, but I do know a bit about enfields. If You are looking for a cheap one, you can get a sportered enfield for pretty cheap. I got one for a $1 a while ago. The bore was a bit worn but it still shoots ok. A good condition sporter can go for about 75-175 dollars. There are a lot out their, some have really good bores and some have the sh*t shot out of them. A bit of advice, since the enfields were quite popular, their are a lot of worn out ones that look like new. The best thing to do is to find a local one and actually handle it and have a good look. If not you can get screwed real good.
 
Bang for your buck; a Finnish capture Mosin Nagant Model 1891. I own three. They are simple to operate, clean, repair and parts are relatively cheap and easy to come by. Mine all shoot MOA with the surplus light ball. Matching serial numbers on most Finns is a non-issue. You can get a good one for about $200.-. Ammo shows up periodically by the container load; sold by the case. There's lots, just be patient and buy when it shows up.

The SVT 40 is an excellent and accurate rifle. Especially the snipers. The Germans used to dump their K98k's and take them. The standard rifles are plentiful and relatively cheap. The Americans are paying around $800.- for them. It is however a PITA after range time; parts are scarce and expensive.

As far as Enfields go, when was the last time any of you saw .303 surplus for sale by the case?
 
Traditionally, accuracy= Bolt action with slightly older firearms, with that being said, you're looking at either the enfield or the nagant,

Enfield, ammo is readily available as well as reloading equipment, the enfield is decently accurate, but, everyone and their mothers uncle has one, they're not all that cheap, and headspace can become ans issue.

Nagant, very cheap to shoot, they are very cheap to buy and there's always one for sale, but, ammo can be very hard to find, they're quasi accurate, ammo is corrosive.

If I were to turn into a fun target rifle, I would lean towards the Enfield, but thats just my opinion.
 
Ok, I think I've decided on the Mosin Nagant 1891. The SVT is a pretty gun, but the semi-auto being difficult to clean and high price point are two big negatives.

For the Mosin Nagant 1891, is there any specific year or model that is more accurate than others? I've seen a hexagonal receiver version mentioned before. What is this, and is it any better?

Thanks,
-Ryan
 
My vote is for the STV for the Fun of it. MN and Enfields will be around and cheap for eternity. go for something fun my friend.
 
Rule Number 1 about milsurp collecting - everyone needs a Lee Enfield in the collection. You are not serious unless you have one.

In our part of the world we have milsurp rifle matches. The winningest rifles have been shot by competitors who know what they are doing. Generally, they use No.4's and Garands. Anything with an aperature sight will beat a leaf sight. The Mausers, SVTs, No.1s, FR-8s, K31s all do well, but ...
 
Canadian80 said:
Ok, I think I've decided on the Mosin Nagant 1891. The SVT is a pretty gun, but the semi-auto being difficult to clean and high price point are two big negatives.

For the Mosin Nagant 1891, is there any specific year or model that is more accurate than others? I've seen a hexagonal receiver version mentioned before. What is this, and is it any better?

Thanks,
-Ryan
Click to expand...

First off... good luck sticking to just one make and model... one way or another you're going to end up with an enfield and svt and god knows what else.. just letting you know.

Anyways, for Mosins, because they were almost all used, you pretty much have to go by individual quality rather than looking for a make and model. Some are a little more roughly finished (IE because the germans were running amok all over the place and finish wasn't important when a german was in the other end of the factory), but no russian 91/30's are "always better" than the others. Polish mosins are known to be usually the best fit and finish, but they're also much more rare and expensive.

So, to reiterate, it's like buying a used car. Doesn't matter what original quality was, because they were all the same. It's what the owner did to it that counts.

As a side note, if you intend to scope it with a russian repro PU scope, there were certain years and manufacturers that were more or most common for the scoped rifles. Also, I think but am not totally sure that the high wall rounded recievers were the only ones used for PU scopes.

The finns liked hex recievers, but I'm not sure if that was based off of any hard evidence, or if the difference was anything that a recreational shooter would appreciate.

Here are some good links

http://7.62x54r.net/

http://mosinnagant.net/sniper section/snipertext1.asp

http://www.russian-mosin-nagant.com/9130sniper.htm
 
Canadian80 said:
I'm looking for an accurate surplus rifle that I can maybe add a scope to and have some fun target shooting. What are the pros and cons to the above listed rifles? Any others I should consider?....
Anybody have any thoughts?
Thanks,
-Ryan
Click to expand...

Though I'm a die-hard Lee Enfield fan, you should also consider the P14 or M17. Very robust, smooth and accurate with an exc. peep sight and excellent handling and 'point'. S&K no-drill scope mount is available. Exc. safety that can be used without taking your hand off the stock. 5 round, non-detachable mag.


The Swedish Mauser 96s are great too. Like the P14/M17 they are ####-on-closing, which is my personal preference. Also very accurate. Don't point as well as the Enfields though, due to the stock design, and the open sights are not as good as aperture IMO. I think you can get a no-drill scope mount for long eye relief scopes. Safety is awkward and gets in the way of some scopes if drilled and tapped for a receiver mounted scope. 5 round, non-detachable mag.

Moisins I've never cared for. Lots of history, but overly-long, clunky bolt, open sights, ugly woodwork etc...not in the top three IMO. 5 round, non-detachable mag. Safety catch? Not worth mentioning.:(

SMLE (No1 MkIII), great rifles, but AFAIK, there isn't a no-drill receiver mounted scope base available, though S&K have just brought out a no-drill base for long eye relief scopes that replaces the backsight. Open sights...not great IMO, but adequate. Old target aperture sights that mount on the receiver can be found if you really want one.

No4 MkI or 2: big advantage over the others is the 10 round, detachable magazine. The only rifle our laws allow to have such I believe. Good aperture sights, lots of other choices available too. Lots of sporter stocks available if you want to dress her in civvies for a while. S&K and other no-drill mounts available. Excellent safety, half-#### feature (SMLE too of course), good 'point'...the list goes on.

I guess I like the P14/M17 about equally with the No4, but the No4 wins by a narrow margin for practical reasons.

The No1 and No4 have the slickest bolt actions of course, with the No1 generally considered a little better than the No4.
 
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The 10 round mag for the Enfield is sweet and they are still plentiful. You can get good hunting .303 rounds at the gas station by my house. They were built to last.
Really if I was looking for a good shooter I would put a WTB ad on the EE.
I am sure there are some Enfield guys with good trader ratings who would be happy to sell you a nice example. That is what I did when buying an antique S&W and it worked really well. My friend made a few bucks off the deal and I got the benefit of his years of experience.

Another great choice is the Parker Hale no 4 customs. These are a beautiful custom rifle built on the no 4's action by Parker Hale and the better ones even have a very nice Parker Hale barrel so no shot out milsurp ones. The fit and finish is amazing ,they also can handle 10 round military mags but have a flush 5 round. They are drilled and tapped for PH scope mounts which are harder to find than weavers but still doable especially thanks to Ebay. For some reason they are super cheap. 300$ to 600$. If a company were to make this rifle today it would be 2 grand. A relative got one without a mag and the recoil pad missing for 250$ and it shoots really well but looks even better.

If you already have a couple soviet pistols then you will probably like the Mosin or even better the SVT more. An American friend has both a Springfield M14(or M1A whatever they call their semi auto version)and the SVT and much prefers the SVT.

Also Soviet gear is just so cool. You would probably like the CZ52 as well. It uses the same 7.62/25 as your Tok but has a really neat roller delay action. It is another gun that would cost a lot to make today. It is also 100% machined ,so no cheap stampings.
 
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