Enfields: a lesson and a question

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RangeRover

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First the lesson (which fortunately came at no cost).

Found a nice '44 Longbranch, all matching but for mag (numbered) - reasonably priced. Condition overall very good based on my limited time looking/handling. #1 bolt head and bore looked good.

As I have, historically, been a bit of an impulse buyer - see it, buy it - I was all ready to close the deal, but based on comments here and other boards I thought it wise to get the head-space checked by a gunsmith.

Yup, headspace was excessive - beyond what the gunsmith thought could even be corrected with a longer bolthead and different bolt. Upshot...pretty doesn't mean safe. My search continues.

Now to the question. I was looking at a friend's Enfields, both sporterized No. 1s. I'm not really interested in converting a sporter back to military spec, and both of these had a ramp front sight affixed to the barrel rather than the original military sight.

He did, though, have some vintage .303 ammo in bandoliers I'm curious about. Headstamp was:

GB 48

7

Any ideas?

Thanks.
 
I truely doubt that the headspace was out that much. There is s pretty big spread between 0 and 5 bolt heads. Also they were not target rifles and allowed a fair amount of slop. It is hard if you reload, but the rifle will work fine with issue or factory ammo with a headspace that is greater than what we might consider proper.
 
How much was the long branch? What was the measurement on the No go gauge?

FYI sammi spec and militatry spec headspace gauges are different in measurements.

a good link: ht tp://www.303british.com/id28.html
 
redleg said:
I truely doubt that the headspace was out that much. There is s pretty big spread between 0 and 5 bolt heads. Also they were not target rifles and allowed a fair amount of slop. It is hard if you reload, but the rifle will work fine with issue or factory ammo with a headspace that is greater than what we might consider proper.
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Ok, I have a question, 0-5 bolt heads? I have used the 0, 1, 2, and 3, heard of the 4 (but never seen it) now a 5?? Fill me in please, is there such a beast?

Pete
 
As I recall, from other discussions, if a bolt head greater than 3 is needed (on a non-tampered-with, number-matching No4), then it's beyond its service life?
 
If you run out of adjustment with various boltheads on an existing bolt you can swap out bolt bodies until you find a longer one which will get the headspace within tolerances. The next step is to file out the new bolt s/n,re-stamp with the rifle's s/n,and then re-blue or re-park the bolt. I've done this with a couple of Long Branches and it works out very well.Nowadays it seems easier (and cheaper) to find a replacement bolt than a long bolthead.
 
Well, I really would like to see a picture, but here's some data.

These are the official sizes:

Number "0": 0.620" - 0.625"
Number "1": 0.625" - 0.630"
Number "2": 0.630" - 0.635"
Number "3"; 0.635" - 0.640"

The infamous Bolt heads, just a guess but here it goes

Number "4" bolt head would be 0.640" - 0.645"
Number "5" bolt head would be 0.645" - 0.650"
 
And how about an "XL" buttstock ....

A few yrs ago I had an exchange with a fellow on another forum who steadfastly maintained that he had a No4 Long Branch butt that was stamped "XL". I concluded that he was either confusing his shirt size or that it was some new internet buttstock.

Back to the boltheads.Skennerton and Cdn Army EMEIs both stipulate that there were 4 different boltheads numbered 0 through 3. In some 45 yrs of handling No4/No5 rifles,I must admit that I've never seen one other than these.The Cdn Army Supply catalogue dated 1959 on both the No4/No7 rifles stipulated size 0 thru 5 boltheads with different NSNs and the same reference # (B3-1581) as well as 4 additional boltheads with unique NSNs with reference # DD(E)450/26. 4 distinct boltheads for the No4 rifle are also listed in Skennerton under the same reference # DD(E)450/26. The Cdn Army Supply manual for the No7 rifle dated Feb 1964 lists 6 different boltheads for the No7 rifle with reference # B3-1581(exactly the same as the 1959 Supply catalogue).

My conclusion after all of this cross-checking is exactly what I knew beforehand.There are only 4 official boltheads for the No4 rifle while there are 6 different boltheads for the CNo7 rifle. A closer check of that toolbox should show that those No5 boltheads have an off center firing pin aperture for the CNo7 rifle.I just checked my stash and re-discovered both a No4 and a No5 bolthead for the CNo7.
 
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purple said:
A few yrs ago I had an exchange with a fellow on another forum who steadfastly maintained that he had a No4 Long Branch butt that was stamped "XL". I concluded that he was either confusing his shirt size or that it was some new internet buttstock.

Back to the boltheads.Skennerton and Cdn Army EMEIs both stipulate that there were 4 different boltheads numbered 0 through 3. In some 45 yrs of handling No4/No5 rifles,I must admit that I've never seen one other than these.The Cdn Army Supply catalogue dated 1959 on both the No4/No7 rifles stipulated size 0 thru 5 boltheads with different NSNs and the same reference # (B3-1581) as well as 4 additional boltheads with unique NSNs with reference # DD(E)450/26. 4 distinct boltheads for the No4 rifle are also listed in Skennerton under the same reference # DD(E)450/26. The Cdn Army Supply manual for the No7 rifle dated Feb 1964 lists 6 different boltheads for the No7 rifle with reference # B3-1581(exactly the same as the 1959 Supply catalogue).

My conclusion after all of this cross-checking is exactly what I knew beforehand.There are only 4 official boltheads for the No4 rifle while there are 6 different boltheads for the CNo7 rifle. A closer check of that toolbox should show that those No5 boltheads have an off center firing pin aperture for the CNo7 rifle.I just checked my stash and re-discovered both a No4 and a No5 bolthead for the CNo7.
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Thanks, you are correct.
 
purple said:
A few yrs ago I had an exchange with a fellow on another forum who steadfastly maintained that he had a No4 Long Branch butt that was stamped "XL". I concluded that he was either confusing his shirt size or that it was some new internet buttstock.

snip....
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Probably just confusing a C1A1 butt stock with a No4MkI* as the C1 was available S,N,L,XL while the No4 was avail B,S,N,L
 
Well - All is not lost. If the bolt is original, and the rifle is truly low mileage, then there is a good chance that the headspace can be corrected to "military" tolerance.
Alteratively, if you reload, you can partially resize the case to allow the case to headspace on the shoulder, rather than the rim. Cases will last longer to boot..
 
Bolts

purple said:
If you run out of adjustment with various boltheads on an existing bolt you can swap out bolt bodies until you find a longer one which will get the headspace within tolerances. The next step is to file out the new bolt s/n,re-stamp with the rifle's s/n,and then re-blue or re-park the bolt. I've done this with a couple of Long Branches and it works out very well.Nowadays it seems easier (and cheaper) to find a replacement bolt than a long bolthead.
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That is BAD advice! L-E bolts can't simply be swapped, unless you have several to choose from and can find one whose lugs bear evenly. Usually the bolt that guys think is longer only seems longer because only one lug is bearing, thus forcing the bolt farther ahead in the action. If bolt bodies came in different sizes, the firing pins would have to, as well. I have and have had dozens of L-E's, and all five bolts in my No.4's ,as well as six spare bolts in my parts box are the same length. A mix and match test showed that only one bolt was able to interchange directly, due to the lugs bearing unevenly. REMEMBER, in the rear locking Lee action, BOTH lugs must bear!! The common misconception seems to be that the solid rib does the locking, and the small lug is merely a "safety lug". That is NOT the case! A poorly fitted bolt will, in time, match itself to the rifle as the one bearing lug compresses its seat. Of course, as it does so, the headspace opens up again. Then you're back to square one. A mismatched bolt could even be dangerous with hot loads.
 
"The next step is to file out the new bolt s/n,re-stamp with the rifle's s/n,and then re-blue or re-park the bolt. I've done this with a couple of Long Branches and it works out very well.
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:eek::eek::kickInTheNuts: works out well for who?????
 
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