Entering the precision rifle realm

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mchaley

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I'd like to reach out and touch some targets. I was reading about the Savage model 10 TR and I like what I saw. Seems like a no-brainer. I'm a fan of Remington though and the 700 is going to be tough to beat.

What would you suggest as an entry rifle? I'm pretty much set on .308
 
I bought a Remington 700 5r in 308 to get into longer shooting (100meters to 300 yards(range caps at 300 yards not meters)). So far I love it! couldn't be happier with my rifle purchase, but be sure to invest in some good glass if you want to go further than 100 meters. I have trouble seeing the bullet holes with my Zeiss conquest hd5 5-25x50 on a sunny day with mirage.

The Remington 700 is a fairly common rifle therefore parts/upgrades are plentiful and easy to come by.
 
How far do you wanna reach?? 500? 1000? 1500?

My bro shoots a Savage FCP in .308, and it's really nice, but it becomes somewhat of a lob shot around 800-1000 relative to my 6.5x47. I think he'd not do a .308 again in a dedicated target rifle.

IMO the Savage's are great value. I'd also consider a Tikka T3 Varmint, and the new Ruger precision rifle. I'd consider a smaller, faster caliber, like a 260, or a 6.5 of some kind, or even a .243.

Just my thoughts....

-J.
 
I'd like to be around 1000 yards. That's what I see as impossible right now. I was thinking about .308 because of how plentiful it is. I've not seen 6.5 in Walmart, for example. .300 win mag may be nice too.
 
For serious long range shooting, you aren't going to be buying .308 in Walmart. Not many gunshops carry match grade ammunition.
 
Forget the Remmy
I think its the single shot Savage Model 12 FTR you should be looking at.
308 is great for out to 1000 yards - not so much with 223. 223 will get there, but it's not a recipe for long range success against a 308. At 300 yards yes, 600 yards maybe, 1000 yards I don't like your odds.

For long range shooting you need to look closely at the action when it's out of the stock.
You want to examine how much steel there is in the middle of the action and over the ejection port. The web of steel across the top of the Savage helps support the weight of the barrel and contributes to accuracy. Stiff is the name of the game. How stiff you ask? Well stiffer than a Remmy I can tell you that. (unless its a single shot 40XB)

A Rem 700 is cleared top and bottom and for that reason is nowhere near as stiff as the Savage Model 12 action.

I've seem guys compete side by side with Barnards and Savages and as often as not the guy shooting the humble Savage wins.

A rifle is only as good as its weakest link and if you use a Remmy that will be it.



1319665007147savage-Model12FTR1.jpg
 
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I will toss in another vote for a savage. Great value and out of the box they are tough to beat.

I absolutely love my .308, and I know you said you are basically set on it, but if I was to do it again (or rebarrel my .308) I would go with 260rem and never look back. Ballistics walk all over a .308, less recoil, and choices for the 6.5 bullets grow everyday. I do love my 308 and it's more accurate than I am, but if I do another short action it's gonna be a 260.
 
BadAsMo said:
Forget the Remmy
I think its the single shot Savage Model 12 FTR you should be looking at.
308 is great for out to 1000 yards - not so much with 223. 223 will get there, but it's not a recipe for long range success against a 308. At 300 yards yes, 600 yards maybe, 1000 yards I don't like your odds.

For long range shooting you need to look closely at the action when it's out of the stock.
You want to examine how much steel there is in the middle of the action and over the ejection port. The web of steel across the top of the Savage helps support the weight of the barrel and contributes to accuracy. Stiff is the name of the game. How stiff you ask? Well stiffer than a Remmy I can tell you that. (unless its a single shot 40XB)

A Rem 700 is cleared top and bottom and for that reason is nowhere near as stiff as the Savage Model 12 action.

I've seem guys compete side by side with Barnards and Savages and as often as not the guy shooting the humble Savage wins.

A rifle is only as good as its weakest link and if you use a Remmy that will be it.



1319665007147savage-Model12FTR1.jpg
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The problem with the Savage target series is they don't have enough twist to really compete with the other chambers offered.
 
Also, that rifle is about $1300. The model 10TR is about $700. I figure $700 for the rifle, $700 for glass, $100 for a brake, $100ish for rings and I'm good to go. I realize I won't be using walmart ammo. That said, inside 300 yards should be fine for it. I'll use match grade down the road. For all I know this will lead to reloading ammo.

It's funny that so many people like Savage yet there are SO many remmy 700's out there.
 
Shooter ----/ said:
The problem with the Savage target series is they don't have enough twist to really compete with the other chambers offered.
Click to expand...

The F-TR is a 12 twist... will stabilize a 175gr and really for a .308 anything heavier is probably not what you would want to be shooting anyway. Of course one could use a 10 twist and heavy pills, but I've never felt handicapped with a 12 twist.
 
mchaley said:
It's funny that so many people like Savage yet there are SO many remmy 700's out there.
Click to expand...

I think it's because nearly all the aftermarket support exists to serve remington owners. Savage is for sure catching up as they grow in popularity. Tikka is also gathering support from shooters.

Savage is quickly gaining a reputation as delivering outstanding performance straight out of the box. The aftermarket is offering more and more each day as well. To be fair, I am a Savage fan boy. The reason is because I have had excellent experiences with Savage rifles and see no reason to jump ship.
 
I have a savage .22lr with bull barrel. Winchester 555 will group at about 2" at 100 yards. I think with a better scope than a 3x9 I can tighten it up too. I was really happy with the .22lr. Now I want to go further and try my hand in some competitions.
 
From what I can see the savages have really come into their own in the last 5-10 years, and 700's had some issues in that same time period.

You might as well budget for reloading now. .308 ammo from the shelf is gonna piss you off at 1000yds.... It's not a BAD choice, there's just lots better out there. Once you get a press you're good for any caliber.

Your budget is pretty good. You can spend a bit less on rings, and a bit more on glass and rifle. You're in Burris or Vortex range on your glass budget, which is good.

I don't think you need a brake on a .308, but that's just my opinion. Maybe on a .300WSM, but maybe not too.

-J.
 
mchaley said:
Also, that rifle is about $1300. The model 10TR is about $700. I figure $700 for the rifle, $700 for glass, $100 for a brake, $100ish for rings and I'm good to go. I realize I won't be using walmart ammo. That said, inside 300 yards should be fine for it. I'll use match grade down the road. For all I know this will lead to reloading ammo.

It's funny that so many people like Savage yet there are SO many remmy 700's out there.
Click to expand...

first of all put the $100 for the brake toward the better Savage.

This conversation seems to have gotten confused.
It's not a Savage Brand vs Remmy Brand
Its a Savage Model 10 vs Savage model 12 vs Remmy which is not apples to apples.
Savage model 10 vs Remmy is apples to apples. They both suck equally well.

The Savage model 10 is no better than a Remmy for stiffness but if we are talking safety, well the Savage is waaaaaaay safer. Are you guys familiar enough with these two actions to know what I'm talking about?

Go ahead and compare the amount of steel in the area of the magazine and ejection ports on these three actions. (OUT OF THE STOCK)
The Savage model 10 and Rem 700 are about the same.
The Savage model 12 has some serious beef that will support the barrel with confidence. You need that stiffness for long range precision shooting and tack driving accuracy.

Hey I don't care what you buy quite honestly, but I wish someone talked me into a Savage Model 12 instead of the cursed remmy I've been struggling with for the past 30 years.

So I've been shooting an accurized Remmy tube gun in F Class for a long time and I cant recall getting beat by another Remmy shooter, (it may have happened but I don't recall) but I can recall getting beat embarrassingly on a good day by a factory spec Savage model 12... more than once. And I had plenty of company with Barnards, Bats and other custom guns.

The cost diff for the upgrade to the 12 is negligible when you spread the value over your next 30 years. Don't let the cost be the reason to scratch it off your list. When you compare the $1300 to the next best thing it's dirt cheap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjtNWwLcZL4&feature=player_detailpage

 
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BadAsMo said:
Hmmm....
On The Berger web site it calls for a 12" twist for the 308 185 grain Juggernaut which is the most popular bullet in F Class

http://buybergerbullets.3dcartstores.com/30-Cal-185-Grain-Match-Juggernaut-Target_p_69.html
Click to expand...

A lot of FTR shooters are using 215gr bullets and you need a 10 twist.

Far too many people are not giving the 308 a fair shake when comparing it against the 260. Everyone loves to quote the 140s as that is basically heaviest for caliber but only use 175-185gr for the 308 even though there are far more ballistically superior 30cal bullets.
 
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