Eotech/Aimpoint On the hand-guard... Its a Canadian thing.

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Big_Red said:
You mean like 90% of the professional users of CCOs?

I can't speak for anyone else but I think the forward EOtech is just an old habit from the RAS/carry handle combo. It certainly does not hold a zero as well as an optic mounted on the receiver or a freefloat rail.

I've seen many issued Eotechs fried/beat to death after being forward mounted on rail systems (variety of weapons).

On some weapons you have no choice (AK family) and you make do with a forward mount. Whenever possible I prefer to have the optic closer to the front end of the receiver rather than out near the muzzle.
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cn_1 said:
And upon what expertise do you base your opinion?

This is one rationale for mounting them further back; http://www.usshootingacademy.com/CM_Files/FIGHTING THROUGH THE RING by Erik Lund.pdf

Note that he views mounting the optic far forward as a sign of inexperience.
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Note - he is referencing a very specify target engagement scenario ( I briefly read the article ) where the two targets are closely positioned to each other. In the particular case, a wide optic FOV would indeed be beneficial in faster target aquisition, but what if one decided to run to the car 20 feet to the left ? This changes everything.

_ _

I should have clarified in my original post, as far forward and as far back "on the upper receiver assembly"... I had assumed this was a given, no? pretty basic principle. Im not too sure why anyone ( with the option ) would want to mount an optic on the hand guard.

My point was, that your BUIS and optic should be as far away from each other as possible ( still on the upper ) Giving you your best field of vision for the optic as well as the longest sight radius for your irons. Also, the main reason I do this, is to run a magnifier from time to time. I don't want to have to re-zero my optic every time I add a magnifier.
It was a point made to range ninja's I see with likely the cheapest AR they could find, completely decked out from top to bottom with every bolt on imaginable. The guys who place their vertical fore grips as far back on the rail as possible. Yeah, because you're clearing rooms so often aren't you ... The same guys who have their BUIS Mid rail with their "eotech" a tits hair away. C'mon, you can't say those guys don't chap your rear when you see them roll in ?

Sorry, rant over .. lets get back on topic !! haha

EDIT: In the end, its personal preference. For some it may work out front, yet others on the rear. Most will say to mount it where it balances the gun and then vary it forward or back until you achieve your best results. In the end, you need to base your expertise off your own results. Spend more time acquiring and engaging multiple targets on your own rather than watching youtube videos or reading articles about how 90% of others do it.
 
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I agree with BigRed.

You got to remember that years ago DHTC was the only folks in Canada with the EO, and had old carry over C8's from before the flattops.

The RAS while quite solid is still not the upper receiver in terms of rigidity, so your EO or AP will take more G load from firing on the RAS than it would mounted of the Upper itself.

WRT to making room for NVG's -- these days folks that the Hill go after often have NV of their own, so running with a MFAL blazing is not always a good idea, so using the optic in conjunction with the Dual Tubes is a good way to remain passive. This is the reason many companies are making high optics mounts so as to give the user the ability to function passively using their nods and day optic (using NV setting).

The Assaulters at DHTC shoot a ton of rounds, and among the best in the world at their trade, however I will say that few are gun guys, and since the universally stupid and restrictive Canadian laws do not allow for the use of similar weapons outside of work in competition, certain things do not progress as fast as down here. Kyle Lamb, Larry Vickers, Jim Smith, Pat McNammara etc did not get to be GREAT shooters for being the CAG for so long, they will tell you it was also their competition shooting on the civilian side that drove them to improvise techniques and ideas, that rounded them out - as they had a solid operational side to know what was fast for gun games, and what translated over to shooting people fast and accurately. So my guess is that many have simply keep the EO up on the RAS as that is what was done in the past with the fixed CH, as well when you can get new EO's quickly and easily, if your EO dies more often on the RAS, who cares? Just my guess.

However I will say if you look back years you will see Aussie SASR, 22SAS, CAG and DevGru using the CH, and the EO/AP in front, these days no so much. You will see it on MOST Maritime teams due to the whole Electro-optics and water/ships hulls are not as 100% as some like. However even still despite height over bore issues, you will see a lot of team that use smoke/gas a lot on HR entries will run an EO or AP on a CH to get a better cheekweld when using a gasmask.

Several of those pictures are from 2002-2004, a whole lot can happen in 10 years.

Despite the fact I think the receiver is a better place at the end of the day, its the guy going thru the door who makes the call, and its his ass on the line, so I won't second guess any of them one bit. If he is comfortable with it there and has the muscle memory for it there - then no one can call him wrong.
 
KevinB said:
I agree with BigRed.

You got to remember that years ago DHTC was the only folks in Canada with the EO, and had old carry over C8's from before the flattops.

The RAS while quite solid is still not the upper receiver in terms of rigidity, so your EO or AP will take more G load from firing on the RAS than it would mounted of the Upper itself.

WRT to making room for NVG's -- these days folks that the Hill go after often have NV of their own, so running with a MFAL blazing is not always a good idea, so using the optic in conjunction with the Dual Tubes is a good way to remain passive. This is the reason many companies are making high optics mounts so as to give the user the ability to function passively using their nods and day optic (using NV setting).

The Assaulters at DHTC shoot a ton of rounds, and among the best in the world at their trade, however I will say that few are gun guys, and since the universally stupid and restrictive Canadian laws do not allow for the use of similar weapons outside of work in competition, certain things do not progress as fast as down here. Kyle Lamb, Larry Vickers, Jim Smith, Pat McNammara etc did not get to be GREAT shooters for being the CAG for so long, they will tell you it was also their competition shooting on the civilian side that drove them to improvise techniques and ideas, that rounded them out - as they had a solid operational side to know what was fast for gun games, and what translated over to shooting people fast and accurately. So my guess is that many have simply keep the EO up on the RAS as that is what was done in the past with the fixed CH, as well when you can get new EO's quickly and easily, if your EO dies more often on the RAS, who cares? Just my guess.

However I will say if you look back years you will see Aussie SASR, 22SAS, CAG and DevGru using the CH, and the EO/AP in front, these days no so much. You will see it on MOST Maritime teams due to the whole Electro-optics and water/ships hulls are not as 100% as some like. However even still despite height over bore issues, you will see a lot of team that use smoke/gas a lot on HR entries will run an EO or AP on a CH to get a better cheekweld when using a gasmask.

Several of those pictures are from 2002-2004, a whole lot can happen in 10 years.

Despite the fact I think the receiver is a better place at the end of the day, its the guy going thru the door who makes the call, and its his ass on the line, so I won't second guess any of them one bit. If he is comfortable with it there and has the muscle memory for it there - then no one can call him wrong.
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Your comments are much appreciated!
 
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