Ever shot a deer with a 223?
- Thread starter BadAsMo
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Mumbles Marble Mouth
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- Lower Mainland
I asked this little while back. It seems that most people who have done it say it works great and everyone who hasn't done it says not to do it.
I hate the, "Its an experts cartridge." response. So you clearly have just stated that you using your .308 means you're an amateur and those using magnums are greenhorns.
I also hate the, "It works but they're better choices." response. The deer I harvested this year with my .270, dropped, tried to get back up, but was dead in 10 seconds. If I made that same shot with a .223, It would of been the same result. A double lunger and a busted blade, that deer isn't going anywhere. Id love to take down a blacktail next year with my .223 Vz 58 just to rub it into the naysayers faces and also prove to Wendy and her ilk that the Vz 58 can be a legitimate choice for a sporting/hunting rifle.
That all said, I made a thread about this same thing but have ended up going for a CZ 550 FS in 8x57.
Figured that I needed a rifle that will be great for game larger than deer and their isn't anything in North America that a 198gr 8x57 won't take down. I'm also getting into reloading so figured id look into better bullets for the .270 for less meat damage for next year.
I hate the, "Its an experts cartridge." response. So you clearly have just stated that you using your .308 means you're an amateur and those using magnums are greenhorns.
I also hate the, "It works but they're better choices." response. The deer I harvested this year with my .270, dropped, tried to get back up, but was dead in 10 seconds. If I made that same shot with a .223, It would of been the same result. A double lunger and a busted blade, that deer isn't going anywhere. Id love to take down a blacktail next year with my .223 Vz 58 just to rub it into the naysayers faces and also prove to Wendy and her ilk that the Vz 58 can be a legitimate choice for a sporting/hunting rifle.
That all said, I made a thread about this same thing but have ended up going for a CZ 550 FS in 8x57.
Figured that I needed a rifle that will be great for game larger than deer and their isn't anything in North America that a 198gr 8x57 won't take down. I'm also getting into reloading so figured id look into better bullets for the .270 for less meat damage for next year.I don't think it's an age thing. I think its an experiences thing, and what people have taken away from those experiences and applied.
I do a lot of root cause investigations and analysis, and one thing that is readily apparent is that a significant portion of the population draw the wrong conclusions on why things went wrong after the fact.
This is because everyone loves to burn up the internet with talk about their hero, apex-predator-super-sniper-success stories, but people rarely volunteer to talk about all the animals they've lost or horror-story-super-suffer sagas.
I've seen many of the latter with the .223, and given the choice I now would always choose at least .243 when hunting deer with center fire rifle.
Cheers,
Brobee
You might hate that response, but it's quite valid.
There are many cartridges a that are ideal for the task at hand, but will work on other species. A 223 will kill a deer with VG results as would a 308 kill a groundhog. Are they idea for these tasks? ..... No. Will they work? ..... Yes.
Flame on, but I've shot deer with a 22/250. I use a heavy/stout bullet for this and pick my shots. I also think a 308 would be a better choice for a wider range of deer hunting situations.
That would not be a good reason to try this. Attempting to take big game with a small caliber for the sole purpose of proving a point... not a good way to represent the hunting population, IMO.
Do tell of all your many super-suffer saga's with the 223 please, as per the OP's request and the point of this thread.
I don't see any of this as sniper bs or however you want to characterize it, merely as the fact that for some folks its a valid tool. For others, they aren't going to be able to consistently or effectively kill deer no matter what they use.
I heard once or twice that "for those that can, anything will work. For those that can't, nothing will."
If a person is able to recognize their personal limitations and work within them then they will probably be much more successfull as a hunter. If you are one who gets the shakes at the sight of a spike whitetail when you have a tag and rifle, it likely means that you are a "can't"....
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In my opinion that is probably the most valid point in this whole thread.
If your a hunter that does his homework and spends time getting to know his rifles and his own limitations at the range or wherever you practice then I can see using a cartridge that others frown on but if your just a weekend warrior that pulls his bolt action 223 out of his closet once a year to go hang with his buddies at deer camp it's not a real good choice to be using a 223. Talking about ballistic coefficient falls on deaf ears of guys that are just heading out the door to slay a buck at deer camp.
I knew a guy that bought a brand new rifle and had it bore sighted and took it moose hunting......not a lot of brains.
so true.^^^
This far into this thread I can see the conversation frequently turns back to more powerful cartridge selection. At the start of this thread I posted a nice link that explains in great detail the vastly different terminal performance that can be achieved by bullet selection alone. Since the 223 is not a real powerful round, this is "perceived" as a critical component. But it's no different than using a 30-06 with deep penetrating Moose bullets on a deer, because I've seen how badly this works more than once.
Selecting a bullet that maximizes havoc within the 8 to 10 inch thickness of a deer's chest is what we need to use regardless of caliber.
This far into this thread I can see the conversation frequently turns back to more powerful cartridge selection. At the start of this thread I posted a nice link that explains in great detail the vastly different terminal performance that can be achieved by bullet selection alone. Since the 223 is not a real powerful round, this is "perceived" as a critical component. But it's no different than using a 30-06 with deep penetrating Moose bullets on a deer, because I've seen how badly this works more than once.
Selecting a bullet that maximizes havoc within the 8 to 10 inch thickness of a deer's chest is what we need to use regardless of caliber.
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bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
Your link is nothing more than an opinion, just like those who have an opinion on using a more powerful cartridge, and worth the same........nothing.
As stated in your opening post, you're proficient with the 223 on deer and believe it's adequate and it works well. Good for you. I ask then what you were trying to achieve with starting this topic? Convert the non believers?
Mumbles Marble Mouth
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- Lower Mainland
Some people can only get a flywheel off a 2 stroke engine with a flywheel puller. They've been told that its the proper tool. Those who know can get the same flywheel off with a rope, pry bar, and a hammer.
Just putting it like that. There are those hunters who only believe that a large caliber bullet will take down a deer well those who know a .223 will take down the same deer. No large caliber is going to make up for a terrible shot.
Just putting it like that. There are those hunters who only believe that a large caliber bullet will take down a deer well those who know a .223 will take down the same deer. No large caliber is going to make up for a terrible shot.
If you have ever missed, there is the possibility that you have wounded and lost an animal.
I have missed deer with the 30-06, and the 8x56R and 8x57 so there is the possibility that these cartridges did not do the job. I have never failed to take down a deer with the 22 Hornet or 22-250.
I have missed deer with the 30-06, and the 8x56R and 8x57 so there is the possibility that these cartridges did not do the job. I have never failed to take down a deer with the 22 Hornet or 22-250.
bad placed shot with .223 means a small hole, slow blood loss, deer will run for miles before dying.
bad shot placed with .308 Norma Magnum means the deer dies from massive blood loss due to size of exit wound, can't run with three legs.
*Note Sarcasm in post*
bad shot placed with .308 Norma Magnum means the deer dies from massive blood loss due to size of exit wound, can't run with three legs.
*Note Sarcasm in post*
Actually the article that I posted a link to was fascinating to me because it is so consistent with my own conclusions.
I've had great results with the 223 on all but one occasion. I'll skip the long and boring story as to why, but I ended up deer hunting once with PMC 55 grain soft points and a rifle with a 1:9 twist barrel. The same exact bullet which was mentioned in the article as useless. Well I have verified this as fact. It is useless on deer. It does easily penetrate through a deer but just does not cause much of a wound channel. I hit a deer in the chest 3 times from inside 20 yards and as it turned, I could see the exit wounds, but I never recovered that deer. It was late when I shot it, just before dark and we waited a while for the deer to die. When we came upon the deer in the dark, we found large puddles of blood where it had lain for a while, but it kept getting back up just outside of flashlight range. Then it started to snow heavy and we got about 8 inches that night. It was never found and It has always bothered me.
All other deer I shot were with 69 grain SMKs and none went further than 10 yards.
I'm just curious how many guys have had similar experiences ranging from excellent performance with one bullet and dismal with another.
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hometownhero
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- Toon Town, Sk
Buddy of mine missed a nice buck at 150 yards with a 7mm rm, after shooting 6 times at a doe at 80 yards it got bored and ran away, later that same day he shot at a 4" stump at 30 yards and missed that as well. Set up a target and tried to shoot groups. They were very inconsistent and about 5-8" at 100 yards for 5 shots. He also used the cheapest winchester ammo he could find. Did manage to connect with a small buck at 39 yards. It penciled right through with almost zero expansion. Deer ran for 50-70 yards after that
i killed a small deer with a .223 this year, and a black bear with a 223 a few years back. thats my only two experiences shooting with a 223 at larger animals, both were bang flops, but neither were B&C animals either, the ranges were short and the bullet went right where i wanted it too.
