Excel Arms .30 carbine

[fat tony]

This firearm would be restricted in Canada, and I would probably never buy one.

This arm is supposed to be straight blowback 'with a heavy return spring'.

Sort of confusing but in straight blowback, I thought it was the weight of the bolt that does the work, not the spring.

But it would follow that in a closed breech hammer fired design, both a heavy breech & heavy return spring might give enough of a delay.

I am still leery of the concept.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/01/20/excel-arms-x-30r-rifle-in-30-carbine/

In the comments section of this blog entry, just for the sake of interest, there is a mention of Jim Cirillo's experiences of using an M1 carbine on the NYPD stakeout squad.

 

[B]

Spring weight is almost completely irrelevant to keeping the cartridge in battery with blowback designs. There is a really great article about the science behind blowback guns. Unfortunately I don't have it since my computer is burnt up, hopefully someone can post it. With enough bolt mass you can make a gun capable of safely firing anything. Anything beyond small pistol cartridges gets tricky and heavy though.

 

[Mark-II]

That's a pretty hot little round for a blowback....think I'd pass and get the real deal in an m1 carbine

 

[fat tony]

In the absence of almost any information on what the inside of this rifle looks like, how it manages to work properly is definitely an intriguing subject.

I think this is the website address B. is referring to.

[dink]http://www.orions-hammer.com/blowback/[/dink]

Delayed blowback comes with a price. The French FAMAS for example is said to be a logistical nightmare for the French forces. Apparently they needed steel cased ammo with light bullets to operate properly. NATO standard ammunition was said to have the heads ripped off of them on extraction from the FAMAS.

 

[scott585]

Spring weight is almost completely irrelevant to keeping the cartridge in battery with blowback designs. There is a really great article about the science behind blowback guns. Unfortunately I don't have it since my computer is burnt up, hopefully someone can post it. With enough bolt mass you can make a gun capable of safely firing anything. Anything beyond small pistol cartridges gets tricky and heavy though.

a fine example is the 20mm orlikon

 

[fat tony]

I heard the empties come out resembling straight walled cases. Not sure what caliber the RCN 20mm cannons were in the WWII era as there were a # of different calibers in 20mm.

 

[Epoxy7]

If the barrel was long enough there is no reason this couldn't be classified as non restricted. It's pretty much like the pistol carbines on the market. Not compatible with AR from what I'm seeing.

 

[lone-wolf]

Thumbs up for .30carbine, unsure of the rifle itself though.

 

[fat tony]

Just to slightly derail, are the new Auto Ordnance M1 Carbines any good?

 

[Mark-II]

Just to slightly derail, are the new Auto Ordnance M1 Carbines any good?

That's a question I have too: whether to drop a pile of money on one of those, or save up two piles for the JRA Rok-o-la one...

30 carbine is one of those things where if you want to shoot the round, it really ought to go with the gun it was made for, to have the complete package. I'd buy a keltec or something otherwise and shoot 9mm

 

[Ebola]

Just to slightly derail, are the new Auto Ordnance M1 Carbines any good?

They had #### reviews a few years back. I havnt heard so much about quality issues in the last year or so. So im assuming the quality has improved a little. Biggest problem seemed to be ftf issues caused by the magazines. Aparently the auto ordnance carbines are extremely picky with the mags they take. Even the magazine that comes with the carbine wont work somtimes so I have read.

Im still debating on picking one up as well. Their past issues worry me as im not to mechanically inclined. I prefer my guns to run perfect out of the box.

 

[Adub]

This is something I would defiantly interested in. After seeing my fathers NR M1 universal carbine I'm sold on it.

 

[Mark-II]

So the big question is how one knows they are getting a new AO as opposed to one that has been sitting on the dealers rack for a number of years...

 

[tjhaile]

I heard the empties come out resembling straight walled cases. Not sure what caliber the RCN 20mm cannons were in the WWII era as there were a # of different calibers in 20mm.

The Oerlikon S used the rebated rim 20x110 round, which is second from right in the picture.

The reason for the rebated rim is that it uses advanced primer ignition blowback, in which the bolt is still moving forward when the gun fires. With a rebated rim, the bolt face can fit into the extra deep chamber. Fired cases do indeed have the shoulder blown forward, such that no neck remains

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowback_(firearms)#Advanced_Primer_Ignition_blowback

Some open bolt SMGs use the same principle, albeit to a limited extent.

 

[Ebola]

So the big question is how one knows they are getting a new AO as opposed to one that has been sitting on the dealers rack for a number of years...

Ask the gun shop how long its been on their shelf. This however isnt a guarantee that you get a good one.

 

[Mark-II]

Ask the gun shop how long its been on their shelf. This however isnt a guarantee that you get a good one.

It sounds as though the buy once cry once principal applies, though I'd like to see the feedback on the JRA ones before I bring the tears.

 

[TRich]

I would definitely love an Excel .30 carbine, asked about this with wolverine a couple of years ago they said they had no plans to bring it in. Maybe Irunguns? Would have to see if they would add an extra .6" to the barrel though.

 

[sunray]

18" barrel and 10 round mag. Restricted, at least. MSRP is nearly a grand US too. Way over priced for a .30 Carbine of unknown quality.

 

[fat tony]

The Oerlikon S used the rebated rim 20x110 round, which is second from right in the picture.

The reason for the rebated rim is that it uses advanced primer ignition blowback, in which the bolt is still moving forward when the gun fires. With a rebated rim, the bolt face can fit into the extra deep chamber. Fired cases do indeed have the shoulder blown forward, such that no neck remains

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowback_(firearms)#Advanced_Primer_Ignition_blowback

Some open bolt SMGs use the same principle, albeit to a limited extent.

I sure find rebated rim cases to be quite fascinating. Except for sporting rifle cartridges designed to be used in Mauser bolt actions (usually by British companies), they all date back to the grandaddy, the Becker autocannon.

Quite interesting that most autocannons before 1950 were blowback designs mainly using deep chambers and rebated rims.

At first glance, you would think that a firearm such as the Oerlikon S would be 'simple' due to it being blowback. That is not really the case.

 

[Kevin M.]

Some weird cartridges on there for sure.

Not sure if the .30 carbine does anything for me in that kind of platform, looks bulkier and heavier than just using an m1 carbine at first glance... though I have not read up on it yet, maybe tomorrow.