excessive pressure signs
- Thread starter Smoke73
- Start date
Well, Sir, I have no experience of shooting flintlocks, but signs of the use of too much in the boiler-room in a percussion gun are the hammer blowing back to full-####, and a stupendous kaboom instead of the nice crack that you usually get.
This is also a message from the gun that the nipple needs changing, as the flash channel has opened up wide from erosion enough to transmit part of the oomph that should have stayed in the barrel back out at you.
Real experts will be along in a minute.
tac
Well... if you master the procedure of how to repeat this time after time, I'd say you're half way towards a semi-auto, lol!
Honestly, I think that the hammer recocking is the best sign of over-pressure on one of those... which can apparently happen even with the proper amount & type of powder being used. The key is not to have any air in the charge, which means compacting your load quite well, or else excessive pressure will form upon firing.
I'm afraid I can't be more of an assistance than this... From what I was always told, you need to pay attention to two things:
1) Use proper charge & powder type (read the owner's manual to find out how much and what type of powder to use - some BP substitutes can yield higher pressures).
2) Compact the black powder well and leave no air. Same goes for cartridges reloaded with black powder, as they need to be either compacted by the bullet during the seating procedure or you must use a filler to remove all the air out.
And then you can shoot safely with no worries...
vagrantviking
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Alberta
As far as I've seen a hammer blowing back to cocked is usually due to worn out (or drilled out) nipples or weak springs.
If you are using realistic amounts of real black powder and one correctly fit bullet at a time in a traditional ML it will be difficult to generate an over pressure condition.
There will reach a point when the extra powder that you put down doesn't get a chance to burn and effectively becomes part of the projectile mass. The ejected powder will give you a huge fireball or shooting over a clean surface like snow will show you how much is not burning.
If you are using guns in poor condition or modern powders and ignition systems you're on your own or need to refer to the manufacturers info.
If you are using realistic amounts of real black powder and one correctly fit bullet at a time in a traditional ML it will be difficult to generate an over pressure condition.
There will reach a point when the extra powder that you put down doesn't get a chance to burn and effectively becomes part of the projectile mass. The ejected powder will give you a huge fireball or shooting over a clean surface like snow will show you how much is not burning.
If you are using guns in poor condition or modern powders and ignition systems you're on your own or need to refer to the manufacturers info.
Using an IMA 53 Enfield that had not been shot in a century. Conical 58 cal, which I had to hammer the rod part way down barrel each time, and 50 gr FF was sending small flames onto my firing hand with each shot. Advised by my very knowledgable BP friends to use ball/patch next time.
Bad advice. Rifle-muskets aren't Hawkens. They were designed to shoot MINIÉ bullets, which are small enough to drop down the bore, then bump up to take the rifling upon firing. Anything that has to be hammered down the barrel could be bad news in those IMA pseudo-P'53 muskets.
Are you using the original nipple? If you are, DON'T! Buy a modern one, and keep the old one for display. The original type nipples were more prone to back-blast than the modern ones.
All good advice so far. The P53 was not designed to shoot a patched ball - the rifling is way too shallow to get a good grip on such a projectile, although there are folks who say they do just fine. Maybe that's true at 50 yards, but as I shoot all of my .577cal out 600 yards, and my Whitworth out to a thousand, that advice is not what I would offer you.
A P53 should be good to go with about 65-70gr of FFg - that's it. The service load was 2.5 drams [68.5gr] with a 535gr Minie bullet that was 'thumbed' into to muzzle, and went down from the weight of the ram-rod alone. With the immense variation in original manufacturing processes your bore could be anything from .570 to .590 - like my Sniders, both of which were originally converted from P53s.
The advice about replacing the nipple - one that I offered in my first post - is still good. Replacing a hammer/main spring is also a possibility, but use the proper tool the squoze the old one up to remove it, or suffer the pain of catching it with your forehead.
tac
A P53 should be good to go with about 65-70gr of FFg - that's it. The service load was 2.5 drams [68.5gr] with a 535gr Minie bullet that was 'thumbed' into to muzzle, and went down from the weight of the ram-rod alone. With the immense variation in original manufacturing processes your bore could be anything from .570 to .590 - like my Sniders, both of which were originally converted from P53s.
The advice about replacing the nipple - one that I offered in my first post - is still good. Replacing a hammer/main spring is also a possibility, but use the proper tool the squoze the old one up to remove it, or suffer the pain of catching it with your forehead.
tac
Good info Tac. Just wondering what you could possibly hit at 600 yds?. Is there any kind of grouping at that distance. Never tried it with my Snider but interested. Also wondering why my converted p53 to Snider seems to shoot the unpatched ball better than a mini? Maybe because i have a .560 mold? Any thoughts from someone more experienced than me?
And after a wee bit of research: The Enfield’s adjustable ladder rear sight had steps for 100 (the default or “battle sight” range), 200, 300, and 400 yards (370 m). For distances beyond that an adjustable flip-up blade sight was graduated (depending on the model and date of manufacture) from 900 to 1,250 yards (1,140 m). British soldiers were trained to hit a target 6 foot by 2 foot (with a 2 foot diameter bull's eye - counting 2 points) out to 600 yards. The target used from 650 to 900 yards had a 3 foot bull's eye, with any man scoring 7 points with 20 rounds at that range being designated a marksman.
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Happy to oblige.
A couple of things here - the P53 was not designed to shoot ball, but if you get reasonable results shooting an unpatched ball, who am I to say anything?
However, try that ball at 300 yards, let alone 600 yards, and you'll be very lucky to hit a Crappy Tyre sign, let alone score, I betcha. The ball will have a very looping trajectory to say the least - whereas the Minie bullet was designed for long-range shooting, at least, by the standards of the day - 1853 et al.
On a good day I can keep most of my shots from my P-H P53 in a couple or three feet at 500 yards, 600 is a WAG, to be honest, but great fun. The Whitworth, shooting cylindrical bullets rather than the proper hexagonal versions is a two-foot grouper most of the time, and I'm happy with that. Both Sniders are minute-of-school-bus shooters, and always were, so I keep them for 100 yard shooting. The Musketoon is a great 50 yard grouper and slightly less great 100 yarder, shooting with only 50gr of FFg, too.
As you've probably guessed by now, I'm not a serious gravel-belly, but I insist of having as much fun as I can with my shooting before I die.
Over here in UK I have eighteen guns, and shoot the heck out of all of them.
tac
Get a mould that makes a Minie bullet with a fairly thin skirt at a thou smaller than the muzzle dimension. That way it will 'thumb' down the muzzle in the prescribed manner. Get a HotShot nipple, too, and fire it the first time tied to an old tyre, point the gun in a safe direction and pull the trigger witha long cord.......
There is a very good reason why the UK still has Firearms Proof Houses, and insists that they be used to test ANY arm sold to the public.
Lots of luck.
tac
Smoke:
Regarding your original question, there are no conventional signs of over-pressure in percussion or flint guns other than excessive muzzle blast and excess powder being ejected out the muzzle - as would show on snow. Basically , if you overload, the excess powder is wasted as muzzle blast. For most rifles, anything more than 2 grains of black powder per caliber: i.e. 90 grains in a 45 cal. is probably overkill and not conducive to accuracy: 1.0 to 1.5 grains per caliber is much better. For single shot pistols about 0.5 - 0.8 grains per caliber seems best for accuracy. Can't speak for percussion revolvers but follow manufactures recommendations and you could not overload a revolver because of space limitations, I suspect. With Pyrodex or other BP substitutes, you can't go far wrong if you follow the manufacturer's advice of loading by equivalent volume to the preferred BP load.
Good luck
Regarding your original question, there are no conventional signs of over-pressure in percussion or flint guns other than excessive muzzle blast and excess powder being ejected out the muzzle - as would show on snow. Basically , if you overload, the excess powder is wasted as muzzle blast. For most rifles, anything more than 2 grains of black powder per caliber: i.e. 90 grains in a 45 cal. is probably overkill and not conducive to accuracy: 1.0 to 1.5 grains per caliber is much better. For single shot pistols about 0.5 - 0.8 grains per caliber seems best for accuracy. Can't speak for percussion revolvers but follow manufactures recommendations and you could not overload a revolver because of space limitations, I suspect. With Pyrodex or other BP substitutes, you can't go far wrong if you follow the manufacturer's advice of loading by equivalent volume to the preferred BP load.
Good luck
