Excessive Velocity in Redhawk

T

tyyota

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My Ruger Redhawk 44 mag with 7.5" barrel is getting some very impressive velocities with both factory and handloads. I am very suprized by how much over the book specs this gun is producing:

Hornady 240ga xtp (factory load) - book velocity 1350 - actual 1500
Hornady 300gr xtp (factory load) - book velocity 1150 - actual 1330Winchester 240ga SP (factory load) - book velocity 1180 - acutal 1500

Sierra 300gr SP over 2400 (handloads):
@17.0gr - acutal 1170
@18.0gr - actaul 1260
@18.5gr - actual 1300
@19.0gr - book 1050 - actual 1320

Brass is not showing any signs of excess pressure. The primers are getting flat but nothing out of the normal. I have showed the brass to two other experienced handloaders and both agree they look fine. Extraction from the cylinder is slick.

I am shooting over a F1 Shooting Chrony that I have verified its accuarcy with another gun shooting two different types of ammo - it spot on for factory cci 22LR.

Do I have any reason to be concerned or am I (as one person told me) lucky to have a fast barrel?

T
 
There is no free lunch with velocity. Are published velocities based on a shorter barrel?

It is possible for a chamber/throat/barrel to be tight and cause higher pressures. This would result in higher velocities.

Try another chrony, if you can. If velocities remain high, load down a bit when you reload.
 
Those velocities are certainly higher than anything I got with my Redhawk. As the previous poster mentioned if the barrel is tight and /or the cylinder barrel gap is below spec you can have higher velocties but only at higher pressures. It's the pressure that makes the velocity so regardless of what the caeses or primers look like I think you are well over the maximum pressures for the 44 mag. The Redhawk is a massively overbuilt revolver that can take a lot but you're on the ragged edge safety wise.

I suspect your chrony may be off, sometimes if your screens are too close to a big magnum you can get falsely high readings from the fast moving gases that actually travel ahead of the bullet. This happened to me with my Dan Wesson 44 mag, moved the chrony 4 feet further away and then got good readings form it.
 
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Thank you for the tips so far!
FYI I don't know what Hornady or Winchester use for posted velocities with the factory ammo. For the Sierra handloads the manual says they used a Blackhawk with a 7.5" barrel. The 300 Sierras were loaded at 1.715 OAL, just a touch shorter than the books 1.735. I doubt the extra 200 fps is coming from the extra .020" squish.
Due to the fact that the extra velocity is present with factory loads make me less concerned that the handloads are dangerous - I believe that most stock ammo is loaded with a certain modesty.
I first suspected the chrony but I did check it againts two different factory loads of CCI 22LR from a 10-22. I checked the 44 on two differnt days at two different muzzle distances. I highly doubt the chrony is out.
I think for the 300 grainers I am going to stick with 18.0 grains (a safety margin below the posted max 19.0) and live with the extra speed.
T
 
I have chronograped 44 Mag in 5 different revolvers (4.2" to 10.5") and a 20" Marlin 1894. All my reloads at that stage were with 2400 powders.

In my 7.5" Redhawk the 240gn Win SP factory loads gave just over 1400 ft/s (advertised at 1350ft/s). It was 1231ft/s in my custom S&W 629-6 with 4.2" barrel, and 1758ft/s in the 20" Marlin rifle.

My highest load with 2400 and a 300gn Frontier plated bullet was 17gr. In my custom 4.2"629-6 S&W it gave 1083ft/s, 7.5" Redhawk gave 1202ft/s, 10.5" Super Blackhawk gave 1269ft/s and the rifle 1418ft/s.

Your loads seem high, but are 2gr heavier than my. I would decrease powder to 17gr and be happy and safe, or go to H110 / Win 296 for the heavy 300gr bullets. The primers of the Win factory ammo were very flat and the imprint of the metal of the firearms very visiable on them. Hot loads.
 
So I finally got back to the range to confirm some data. I was able to do some testing with another 44 RedHawk - this one a 9.5" barrel (mine is 7.5").
I moved the chrony out further (5 yard) to eliminate muzzle blast.

Winchester 240gr SP (Factory):
My 7.5" RH - 1540 fps (Book Value 1180 with 4" Barrel)
9.5" RH - 1470 fps

Sierra 300gr SP (over 18.0gr 2400)
My 7.5" RH - 1250 fps (Book Value around 1000 fps with 7.5" Barrel)
9.5" RH - 1140 fps

Hornady 240gr XTP (over 19.5gr 2400)
My 7.5" RH - 1350 fps (Book Value 1240 with 7.5" Barrel)
9.5" RH - 1280 fps

Hornady 240 XTP (over 20.5gr 2400)
My 7.5" RH - 1420 (Book Value 1310 with 7.5" Barrel)

It seems that my 7.5" barrel is producing velocities of about 70-100 fps faster than a 9.5" barrel.
Also it is producing velocities of about 100-200 fps faster than book values.
Both guns were showing similar signs at the primer - mild to moderate primer flattening. The 9.5" gun is a very "experienced gun". Mine is of 80's vintage but was first shot by me a year and a half ago.

And I shot some of the same handloads out of my Rossi 92 16" barrel and got more or less dead on book values.

I did some shots to compare Winchester brass to Hornady - with the same load in each case I was getting about 50 fps more with Hornady.

So the lingering questions are: how, why, and is this all safe?
Is the fast gun phenomenon true?

T
 
I would say you have a very excellent Red Hawk.
I would also suggest that the main reason for the extra velocity is that yours has a tighter gap between the cyliner and the forcing cone.
You can measure the gap with automotive feeler gauges. I had a 7.5 inch Super Blackhawk that gave more velocity than other 44 revolvers I had. The gap measured .005" and that seemed quite tight, as compared to some others.
 
I'd be very curious about the bore dimensions when you slug it. The only thing that makes velocity is pressure so the question is what's increasing the pressure?
The B/C gap is within tolerance but what's the forcing cone like? Any lead buildup in it?
Like wise what's the surface of the bore like, rough, smooth?

A real interesting situation? Keep us up to date
 
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