exotic rounds

I've never fired a bean bag round, but I have used rubber bullets an cracker shells on bears. I think it is a real good idea to keep the LTL loads in a gun specifically for them, and have a second gun that is only loaded with lethal ammo. The two guns should not be identical. Because cracker shells are corrosive, it might be wise to use a marine coat finished gun for scare cartridges and rubber bullets or bean bags and a black gun for lethal rounds. This prevents running into problems like killing a bear you intend to drive off, or not being able to save your life because you have a scare cartridge in the chamber instead of a slug.
 
I dislike the use of buckshot for big game in the hunting context and I don't think shot of any size should be used for big game. True there are jurisdictions that require the use of buckshot, but that just goes to prove that elected officials and bureaucrats don't understand the subject. If by ball we are referring to a spherical ball, my objection extends to its use as well, be it propelled by a shotgun or a black powder rifle. If the ball is made heavy enough for the job, it must be elongated to to take the shape of a minnie ball in the black powder rifle or a slug in a shotgun. Spherical projectiles are ballistically challenged in that they are light for caliber and have neither a longitudinal axis to rotate around nor a nose heavy configuration to ensure a modicum of accuracy or straight line penetration. Spare me the stories of the pioneers, I'm sure they would have traded their round ball loaded muskets for one of our slug loaded 12 gauge breech loading guns in a second.

Even the LEO community has come to realize that a buckshot loaded shotgun is less effective than a pipsqueak round like the .223. Anyone who doubts this should consider the findings from the infamous Miami Shootout between two armed felons and the FBI, it's interesting reading for anyone interested in terminal ballistics. But I digress, the context is shooting bears, and bears are bigger, denser, and have thicker hides than people . . . well most people. The 12 gauge' s versatility comes from the fact that when loaded with slugs it can fill the role of the powerful rifle, thus elevating it from it's place as a small game and bird gun. I don't understand why, except under specific circumstances, anyone would choose ammunition that makes their gun less effective when hunting big game.

Now, if buck or ball suck as killers of big game by themselves, loaded together in the same cartridge as buck and ball they are even worse. The ball has reduced velocity due to the weight of the shot in cartridge which further reduces it's already questionable penetration, and the shot is less effective than it might be because due to the presence of the ball there is an insufficient mass to inflict the tissue damage necessary for a humane kill.

IIRC :redface:, that situation involved body armour....:yingyang:...slugs would have left welts :eek:, indeed :pirate:, but as to the idea of penetration...:confused:....?
 
IIRC :redface:, that situation involved body armour....:yingyang:...slugs would have left welts :eek:, indeed :pirate:, but as to the idea of penetration...:confused:....?



FBI Agents:

Richard Manauzzi Injured (unspecified injuries).

Gordon McNeill Seriously injured by .223 gunshot wounds to the right hand and neck

Edmundo Mireles Seriously injured by a .223 gunshot wound to the left forearm.

Gilbert Orrantia Injured by shrapnel and debris produced by a .223 bullet near miss.

John Hanlon Seriously injured by .223 gunshot wounds to the right hand and groin.

Benjamin Grogan, 53 Killed by a .223 gunshot wound to the chest.

Gerald Dove, 30 Killed by two .223 gunshot wounds to the head.

Ron Risner Uninjured.


Suspects:

William Matix, 34 Killed by multiple gunshot wounds.
Michael Platt, 32 Killed by multiple gunshot wounds.
 
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