Experiences 358 cal rifles: 35 Whelen AI, 358 Norma Mag, 358 STA (Shooting Times Alaska).

[SuperCub]

The 35 Whelen is the obvious choice from a practical standpoint. I owned a few over the years and was never disappointed. The 250gr Speer was the bullet I used the most in it.

There are tons of 30-06 action/rifles out there to build on and brass will never be a problem when reforming 30-06.

 

[brybenn]

For a hunting gun id choose a whelen and build it light and trim. Good pad and a brake shouldn't be to hard on recoil and gets you the 35 you want. Bullets in 358 are easier to source than 9.3 but I went the 9.3 route myself but I think the whelen is a more versatile cartridge. It has more speed and reach if needed. My hunting is in thicker bush so I dont need the reach.

2506 3006 and 35 whelen were my original 3 rifle choices but thats changed over time

If a single has any interest for you a custom walnut with a recoil reducer stock on the cva v2 could be a fun project. Its factory threaded for a brake and has a good trigger. Easy and trim to carry thru bush

 

[hoytcanon]

If you are going custom built, I would recommend the Sambar... I thinknit has the perfect case capacity for .35 cal.

As far as .35's go, I have had a four decades love affair with them... and have owned them all and some customs to boot. My favorite in the upper power level was a .35/375 Ruger. My all time most prolific is the little .358 Win, with which I have taken many tons of game. If push came to shove, and only one could be chosen, it would be the .350 Rem Mag... it does everything that a .35 niche rifle can and should. However at the custom level, the Sambar is pretty damn near perfect.

 

[D.Pagenkopf]

I have a 350 rem and a 358 Norma and they’re both great. If I wanted any more stank than then Norma I would probably step up to a 375 H&H instead of bothering with the STA

One I would really like to try is the 35 sambar (WSM)

That WSM case... it has to be the best little recipe to do most things really well. I just had the thought neck up the WSM case to 358... then I fell hard down that rabbit hole. Good lord what a little ride that was. This would be a cool build... I do have my heart set more so on STA and Whelen. I'm more so looking towards Whelen over the others. I may have to get a Sambar/ 358 WSM or 375 WSM. The only downfall with the WSM is it doesn't have a fun name. I'd have to build a modestly custom wildcat and get a few good names out there!

 

[D.Pagenkopf]

In 1978 I built a light weight 358 Norma Mag on a Sako action. The recoil was right up there. Sold it in 1980 to a fellow who wanted lots of punch.

I built several .350 Rem Mags... popular 'little' round. The owners all loved them.

That's fun. More bang in less weight is always tough on recoil. I have to balance the weight for handling and recoil. I have trouble with both of those things these days.

 

[D.Pagenkopf]

D. Pagenkopf (Pageheader) wrote: "I was planning on stocking up when and where I found some in a good supply. I'd like to at least be using 200 and 225 gr bullets. If I wanted to shoot 180s I'd stick to 30 cals.
It'd be a custom job I'm sure, that is what I anticipated."

Well, at higher speeds recoil will be much less and penetration will equal anything the 200grain offering in 35 cal will do.

I encourage you to pursue your needs/wants/fantasies, so no diss meant. Any excuse for a new rifle, commercial or custom, works for me.

No diss' taken at all!

Clarification on the 180gr comment- I have a few 30s already, 180gr is already covered in that category. To me the 30 cal is optimized for the 150-180 gr weight class. Long and skinny and slippery. The 35 cal looks to me the 225-250 is the sweet spot for velocity and energy. 35s have more drag due to the nature of geometry. Short and elongated width wise...

 

[fuzzy39]

I currently own a Whelen and a 35WSM. Both builds on Savage actions and both shoot lights out. I’ve owned 4 other Whelens, one 358 Norma, 1 350 RM, 2 358 Win and one 35 REM. My 35 WSM is the 200gr Barnes TTSX at 3000fps in front of Alliant 17. It has a 20 inch barrel and is super handy. My Whelen loves the 225 Barnes TSX at 2700fps. Neither are obnoxious to shoot with Limbsaver recoil pads and animals go down hard.

I have owned about four different 9.3x62 rifles over the years and have recently found one of my grail guns the BRNO 600 with the peep site! Lovely.

If I was to have only one of the bunch, the Whelen probably makes the most sense. The lighter bullets are quite speedy for deer and the superformace factory goes almost 3000fps in my Whelen. If you like to reload, go with the Sambar. I neck up 325 WSM brass through a 338 die then pass through the Sambar die and load her up. Easy peasy. My WSM is a KS barrel and I had the work done by GoBallisticGunsmithing in Star City, SK. Dennis has reamers for it.

Check out my thread from a couple of year back with my Sambar.

Have fun!!

 

[D.Pagenkopf]

My 35 cal experience has been with the 35 Whelen. I wanted a close to midrange hammer and it does the job. Fast forward a few decades and I learned what else hits hard at close range. Brace yourself for this. Damn near everything hits hard at close range. Many of those also work a lot better at extended ranges than any of the mild mediums. The only medium I need in my stable is. a .375, and realistically although it is about as versatile as a caliber can get for various sized game, are you really going on hunts with one rifle that include buffalo and up sized animals? If not, a big 30 or 7 will likely work better. If you want to go heavier and hedged your bets with a big 338 you won’t get a lot of argument from me either.

My Mum was shooting a fox on a downhill slope and missed... the bullet -22lr (Maybe a stinger) went through 400 yards of thick bush behind the fox. Nailed one of the cow elk in the field behind it, square in between the eyes. Wrong place at the wrong time? Found dead next spring... She never said a word to my Dad, he never said anything to her and she didn't shoot at Foxes anymore lol.

Yeah I get it, they'll all go bang. The closer you are, the harder they hit.

Just do it is kinda where I'm at. Try it, enjoy it, start with the 35 Whelen and maybe get another 35 after if I like it. The Deer won't know the difference.

338 is another good one too, I'd like one of them as well. I nailed a big rock at 700 with a friends Lapua 338 Mag. Fun times.

 

[crazy_davey]

I have one 35 Whelen that probably won’t be going anywhere anytime soon. Ruger in a McMillan stock, 20” barrel, NEGC rear peep and front sight, 1-4 Leupold with quick detach Talley steel rings.

Was hoping to use it on moose this fall, looks like a one more year wait. What’s 17 years… haha

 

[D.Pagenkopf]

I chronoed some loads that I've shot a tonne of Sambar deer with an was surprised at only 2200fps ,
Mild recoil an good thump on the other end.

Of course it can be hot rodded or AI'd but no real need unless setting it up for something other than point an shoot big game hunting to 250m say

I plan to AI the Whelen. I'm in Alberta with a wide range of hunting scenarios possible, from thick timbers to open prairie or Rocky Mountains. I would like the extra energy and FPS. Also never had an AI before.

 

[D.Pagenkopf]

there no replacement for displacement

That's right. Bigger is better for getting the job done faster.

 

[D.Pagenkopf]

I owned a Shultz and Larsen in 358 Norma for one moose season. Didn’t get anything. Recoil was a bit challenging but limiting sitting range sessions to 40 rounds helped.

I shot factory Norma 250gr ammo and planned on reloading once I had enough brass to make a batch.
But the 35 cal is ultimately the reason I got rid of the rifle. 35 sectional density and ballistic coefficients were worse for the same bullet weights in .338 and more available. While .366 and .375 bullets were more available and in heavier weights.

Availability wise. This was in northern bc. It felt like shops stocked .338, .366 and .375 bullets. They might happen to have a box of .358 bullets. But were happy to get rid of them and would not restock.

The reloading component situation is always the challange I've had generally in Canada.

I have a friend who shoots 338 Lapua and he had trouble finding what he wanted 10 yr ago when he got into loading for it. I'm in the Calgary area, and while the online stores have made access to product easier- bullets are heavy to ship... Always something!

I was at BPS and they had 200 gr FTX 358 cal. They were cheap @ $75/100.

 

[D.Pagenkopf]

If you are going custom built, I would recommend the Sambar... I thinknit has the perfect case capacity for .35 cal.

As far as .35's go, I have had a four decades love affair with them... and have owned them all and some customs to boot. My favorite in the upper power level was a .35/375 Ruger. My all time most prolific is the little .358 Win, with which I have taken many tons of game. If push came to shove, and only one could be chosen, it would be the .350 Rem Mag... it does everything that a .35 niche rifle can and should. However at the custom level, the Sambar is pretty damn near perfect.

I mentioned it earlier but that WSM case is a great case, they almost got it 100% perfect. They went too far with the WSSM.

I've read a little on the 350 Rem now. It is a cool-sounding round. In terms of components, a guy can't beat making a cartridge out of an '06 case.

 

[D.Pagenkopf]

I currently own a Whelen and a 35WSM. Both builds on Savage actions and both shoot lights out. I’ve owned 4 other Whelens, one 358 Norma, 1 350 RM, 2 358 Win and one 35 REM. My 35 WSM is the 200gr Barnes TTSX at 3000fps in front of Alliant 17. It has a 20 inch barrel and is super handy. My Whelen loves the 225 Barnes TSX at 2700fps. Neither are obnoxious to shoot with Limbsaver recoil pads and animals go down hard.

I have owned about four different 9.3x62 rifles over the years and have recently found one of my grail guns the BRNO 600 with the peep site! Lovely.

If I was to have only one of the bunch, the Whelen probably makes the most sense. The lighter bullets are quite speedy for deer and the superformace factory goes almost 3000fps in my Whelen. If you like to reload, go with the Sambar. I neck up 325 WSM brass through a 338 die then pass through the Sambar die and load her up. Easy peasy. My WSM is a KS barrel and I had the work done by GoBallisticGunsmithing in Star City, SK. Dennis has reamers for it.

Check out my thread from a couple of year back with my Sambar.

Have fun!!

Having fun indeed!- I'll check that thread out.

I'm going to do a 35 WSM another time, that really sounds like a good round.

At this point, I feel like I've concluded I want to get into the 35 Whelen AI through RKS in Wimborne. I just need to find a good gun to bore out.

I think for a pad I'll be going with a FalconStrike or the AirTech from Pachmayr. Depending on geometry, I'll have a drop plate on the butt to get me more upright on the gun... it looks goofy, but I'll never go back!

 

[D.Pagenkopf]

I have one 35 Whelen that probably won’t be going anywhere anytime soon. Ruger in a McMillan stock, 20” barrel, NEGC rear peep and front sight, 1-4 Leupold with quick detach Talley steel rings.

Was hoping to use it on moose this fall, looks like a one more year wait. What’s 17 years… haha

I know the feeling... Priority 15 on Elk and looking at another 19 yrs before I'm drawn at this rate... it was 15 yrs last yr...

 

[bearhunter]

No diss' taken at all!

Clarification on the 180gr comment- I have a few 30s already, 180gr is already covered in that category. To me the 30 cal is optimized for the 150-180 gr weight class. Long and skinny and slippery. The 35 cal looks to me the 225-250 is the sweet spot for velocity and energy. 35s have more drag due to the nature of geometry. Short and elongated width wise...

I mostly shot 225-250 out of my 35 Whelan's after I ran out of the fantastic 275 grain Speer fbrn.

275-300 grain bullets were what the 35 Whelan was developed to shoot, and both Elmer Keith and Col Whelan used them exclusively. They also loaded the nuts out of their rifles and their loads were hotter than mine, using Super Vel powders.

I will readily admit, I don't like shooting anything past 300-400 yds and prefer closer.

I shot several Moose with the 275 grain Speer fbrn, all but one were one-shot kills, and the one that wasn't was my fault. She was running faster than I estimated, and I hit her in the paunch from behind at a quartering angle, at 75 yards. She wasn't at as sharp an angle as I thought, and my bullet didn't hit anything that would immediately prove vital. She crossed the Frazer River, and when she emerged, she stopped and turned around to look back. The second shot was a straight on shot, on a still target. I shot her in the base of the neck, and the bullet took out one carotid artery, slipped under the spine, and tore out the main artery, then exited after hitting the hip bone on the left side. The whole left tenderloin was bloodshot, and the hipbone was shattered. The exit hole in the sking was about an inch across, but the meat underneath, I could put my fist into.

I was using a Winchester Mod7, action, with a 24 in bbl, and my handloads were developing close to 60K psi. I used W748, over magnum primers too get around 2600 fps.

Today, lighter monolithic bullets can be pushed faster and work well, back in the day, solids were almost exclusively for hunting Africa, and were illegal for hunting game in most other places.

People are used to heavy duty bullets today and try to transpose data onto old school cup and core type bullets. Big mistake.

 

[WhelanLad]

I plan to AI the Whelen. I'm in Alberta with a wide range of hunting scenarios possible, from thick timbers to open prairie or Rocky Mountains. I would like the extra energy and FPS. Also never had an AI before.

You know what though.

9.1x63....ya Whelen.
And the other is a 9.3x62 , ya factory Ackley

Fair enough, don't over look a 358 Norma magnum or 350 Rem mag

 

[270AB]

Having fun indeed!- I'll check that thread out.

I'm going to do a 35 WSM another time, that really sounds like a good round.

At this point, I feel like I've concluded I want to get into the 35 Whelen AI through RKS in Wimborne. I just need to find a good gun to bore out.

I think for a pad I'll be going with a FalconStrike or the AirTech from Pachmayr. Depending on geometry, I'll have a drop plate on the butt to get me more upright on the gun... it looks goofy, but I'll never go back!

Air Tech is a Limbsaver pad. Effective enough, a bit spongy, but would do the job. Pachmayr grind to fit is imo a much nicer, classic look, that performs every bit as well or better without the gaudy factor.

I'll never begrudge a shooter for building what he wants but for the marginal performance difference achieved in AI'ing the Whelen (roughly 2%) it wouldn't be a preferred option in a custom rifle for me.

Re the Whelen chambering itself I really, Really like it. 225 ABs at 2750 that I could squeeze an extra 100 out of are its sweet spot, along with the occasional 200gr ttsx at just under 2900 perform very well also and keep the mono speed up.

Mine is a semi custom Rem 700 action, 22" barrel, in a Wildcat that both Gary Flach and Nobby Uno had a hand in and all I can say is if I had to dump any of my mid bores it'd be the last to go. Consistent 5/8" groups with the ABs and many cloverleafs which with my marginal shooting talents says a lot. It is far beyond the expectations I had when it was a pipe dream.

Any way you slice it the 35 Whelen is a very capable 400+ yard chambering that runs close to the 338wm speed and energy wise using same bullet type and weight to 275 - 300 yards. After that the 338 ballistics take over. If ballistics ever became a prime concern I'd just carry one of my .284s.

Been hunting and shooting a long, LONG time in AB and Sk and if I had to count the number of times I've taken hunting shots beyond 300 yards on one hand I'd have fingers left over. Performance wise I've never seen the need to add in the 10 - 12 lbs of recoil the magnum adds and can't say I've ever felt undergunned when hunting elk and moose in heavy g bear country along the Simonette. Chances are it doesn't make much difference what cartridge you're carrying should an ugly situation arise and more important factors like, what can I shoot competently while crapping my pants kick in.

For what its worth my 35W weighs in at 8lbs scoped and its a pussycat on the recoil side loaded at average. Next to zero difference between it and a 7rm/06. If you'll reload don't be afraid of using newer powders than many manual recommends and use at minimum Speer #14 and newer as reference. Much of the Whelens load data was assembled during the Paleolithic era and didn't include newer at the time powders like IMR 8208 XBR, Alliant Pro Varmint, CFE 223 and Alliant 2000-MR. It wasn't legitimized by Remington at Saami until 1988 after living as a wildcat dor 66 years, and prior to that date guys were already reloading 250 gr to 2550 - 2600 fps without knowing true pressures until 52,000 CUP became 62,000 PSI. That made 250gr bullets loaded to 2700 possible in 24" barrels. 225gr is optimum "everything" tho imo. Bullets, powder, and obviously brass are easy enough to find. Factory loads not so much depending on where you do your shopping. I had Prophet River special order several boxes of factory Nosler Trophy 225Abs for me back then and I had what I needed for brass to last a while.

Enjoy whichever .358 you choose.

 

[Chuckbuster]

More like 9.1x62 at .358 than 9.3, which is .366 diameter. Both have identical results.

Now ask yourself how much you like recoil and how much you like to shoot your rifles.

35 Whelan/9.3x62/338-06 = real life, almost identical results on targets.

35 caliber bullets can be difficult to find at times, and 9.3 can be next to impossible, other than online.

The 35 Whelan is a great cartridge with manageable recoil, even on the bench. It will cleanly take most animals on the planet, other than Pachyderms and Hippos, and even those with solids at close range.

I've shot Deer, Moose, Bears, and Elk with the 35 Whelan, but none were over 300 yds, which is just my personal limit for dependable bullet placement under "field" conditions.

IMHO, it should be much more popular than it is.

In reality, it has more felt recoil than many folks can handle.

If you're reducing bullet weight to dampen felt recoil, you might as well stick with a 30-06, and 180 grain bullets.

Lighter monolithic bullets, which are longer can be a step up, but they're hard to find, and selection isn't great.

Factory cartridges are available at some shops, and it's a very simple cartridge to reload, with lots of info published.

Most modern rifles can easily exceed published maximum data with all bullet weights.

I don't know if any of the big manufacturers are still building the 35 Whelan

I’ve noticed that load data has been dialed down considerably for the .35 Whelen over the years. I shot and still have some loads with 59+, almost 60 grains of RL15 out of my Sako. I believe Nosler now has the published max at about 53grains.

And as mentioned above, newer powders have added new life to the Whelen. 8208 allows for 2500+fps with 250 grain bullets, while CFE223 can yield over 2800fps with 225s.

 

[bearhunter]

I’ve noticed that load data has been dialed down considerably for the .35 Whelen over the years. I shot and still have some loads with 59+, almost 60 grains of RL15 out of my Sako. I believe Nosler now has the published max at about 53grains.

And as mentioned above, newer powders have added new life to the Whelen. 8208 allows for 2500+fps with 250 grain bullets, while CFE223 can yield over 2800fps with 225s.

Yup, the 35 Whelan needs faster powders to excel, because of the larger bore diameter. I used BLC2, IMR3031, and IMR4064 when I first started using the cartridge.