experiencing slow kills with heavy 7mm08

Terminal Ballistics can drive sane hunters completely batty, lol.

Frangible bullets like the ELD-X [and M] work great, until they fail. High velocity is their nemesis, particularly if good
penetration is the goal.
I may be called a opinionated old guy, but my opinions work best for me. I have shot more than 100 head of game with
the venerable Nosler Partition. Impact velocities have been from under 2000 fps to over 3300 fps. I recovered about 25%
of these bullets, the remainder were passthroughs. They never failed to do the job well, even when heavy bone was encountered.

Another bullet I use that has been flawless in function is the Swift A-Frame. [The Scirocco II has also worked well, as has the
Nosler Accubond] Only shot one animal with the Hornady Interbond, so not enough to make an opinion. [bullet not recovered]
I generally do not use boattail C&C bullets for hunting unless they are bonded, since they seem more likely to shed their core
once they start to expand in an animal. FB C&C bullets tend to stay intact better, in my experience.

The monometal bullets are OK as long as the velocity is up, but may fail to expand once speed drops off. [I have two of such
bullets in my collection, both from other hunters]. My personal use of the TTSX is limited, but it seemed that it took a bit longer
for the deer shot with them to "hit the ground" after the shot. [ 270 Winchester with 110 TTSX at 3300+ fps MV]

Sorry about the long post, but just wanted to share a few thoughts.
 
great post, great experience you share, it was you with the bullet collection pics right? if you get bored one day and decide to excel that collection on starting sd, impact velocity, finished weight etc...I dunno, it's prolly something I would be into but data mining is one of my fetishes lol, you have some great info in all those finished bullets imo

agree with you completely, as for the eld-x/m frangibles also agree, so to compensate so they don't 'fail' is to ensure higher than normal sd for game intended, aaaand make sure you don't push em too fast or you have to add even more sd to compensate for that, that always leaves plenty of tail to ensure deep enough penetration the way partitions hung onto their tail because of the 'partition' to ensure the same....and most older bullets needed that as they were a little marginal on sd so to speak so you had to either go much heavier on cup/cores or add in the a-frame/partition.....now all we gotta do is add in sd to achieve the same thing....lots of those partitions likely a .2 or say .25.....take an eld-x/m and add .5 more sd to that and be .25 to .3 and you do basically the same thing on a cup core as the .2 or .25 partition given similar jacket thickness

you're also right...the topic drives people batty, and that drives me batty lol, it's time we try to objectify this subject better, we understand how to solve for inflight ballistics over 2 miles now....but we can't objectify what happens over a travel of 1 yard or less once the swimming starts, we go straight into 'batty mode' lol ;)
 
Reading the OPs original post makes me wonder if he also has a slow(er) barrel (or twist) that is not producing the anticipated 2500 fps with this load. Unless chronied to verify, this could account for the bullet's poor performance, as it is not the velocity on the animal required for adequate expansion and penetration. I have seen a number of rifles that are 200-400 fps slower than expected with various ammo/loads that have had a significant impact on bullet and on-game performance.
I think he is on the right track looking for a better bullet/load combination to get him his desired performance!
Hope he finds it!
 
Sum good advise in here, I have shot a few deer with my 7-08, with no problem and have killed a handful of Samber, mostly with a .270 win and 7x57, when I lived in Bulls New Zealand, most local guys chasing them, were using a 3006 or 300mag of sum sort, they are one of those animals', that just seam to hold on to life, for longer than normal,
The last time I hunted them, (Santoft Forest) we got a young stag, that took three shots to put down, 270 win with 150gr, close too 30-40 Meters. all chest shots, one front on, two threw the left shoulder, None of us could believe it,
For you Canadians, Samber are about the same size as elk, but a bit more stocky/solid, however elk taste great and Samber are terrible, except a very young. Corse and harsh, mostly good for sausages and dog food.
 
Bullet design is more important than weight. I am finding myself going back to simple softpoints and avoiding the array of high-tech designs, but do lean towards heavier bullets. I played around with a few designs, loved the tight groups I was getting on paper with the lead-free bullets but found them to be slow kills. The Heart/lung shots did kill the animals, but not before they ran a kilometre and piled up deep in the bush, requiring some very careful tracking and significant efforts in retrieval. I then moved to the heavier Accubonds, loving the accuracy and appreciating the idea of the heavy bullet. They too killed an animal in one shot but again did not drop the animal before it disappeared into the thickest cover and travelled a long way from where it was hit.

I reflected on the simplicity of hunting in my youth when all I had was a 6mm Remington, a 4X scope, with the cheapest 100 grain Powershocks I could find, and with which I amassed a pile of game, including deer, elk, moose, and bear, the majority of which were taken with one shot and dropped on the spot or within a few metres of where they stood when I shot. Such a light bullet but it did a great job of expanding quickly. I found in my mid-life, I had to try the next big thing in ammunition, new cartridges, and optics without recognising what I had already achieved with something simple and light. I went back to softpoints and those same shots are dumping animals on the spot, maybe a kick or two and a 20 metre lunge. 100 grain in my 6mm, 130s in my 270s, 160s in my 7mmRM, and 250s in my 35. I had a 7-08 and loved the 140 grain Powershocks. If I still had a 7-08, I would opt for the 140s again, especially after watching a huge bull elk drop to a single Powershock.
 
Update-
those 160gr Speers ended up being a good stalking Round, ive taken a few Sambar deer with them now at under 100 meters - typical woods stalking ranges.
i experienced good penetration in most deers an expansion was there- i grew more confident with them as i was able to use them on more deer.

ive used up those projectiles now, an have about 15 loaded rounds left, but i have just switched over to the 154gr Interlock bullet, stil using Varget but again not a hot load with 39gr of Varget... est about 2500fps.

this load seems to have a bit more pace behind it on a 200 meter gong , an also seemed to hit just as hard if not harder than the 160gr Speer-- id say due to that extra 100 fps!
trajectory is similiar, about 1moa different out to 400m, however this will be a 300m max round-- still using the 140gr CLUB Zero, these 154gr are about 1 inch high of aim.
cheers
 
I use Barnes 140gr TTSX in my 284 Win, just under 3000 fps: 2988fps avg, I've never recovered a bullet, yes have been broadside shots out to 583 yds, dropped and dead - I always pin thru the shoulder.... this is my fav rifle: accuracy, 5.7 lbs, and no losing critters
 
WhelanLad said:
Update-
those 160gr Speers ended up being a good stalking Round, ive taken a few Sambar deer with them now at under 100 meters - typical woods stalking ranges.
i experienced good penetration in most deers an expansion was there- i grew more confident with them as i was able to use them on more deer.

ive used up those projectiles now, an have about 15 loaded rounds left, but i have just switched over to the 154gr Interlock bullet, stil using Varget but again not a hot load with 39gr of Varget... est about 2500fps.

this load seems to have a bit more pace behind it on a 200 meter gong , an also seemed to hit just as hard if not harder than the 160gr Speer-- id say due to that extra 100 fps!
trajectory is similiar, about 1moa different out to 400m, however this will be a 300m max round-- still using the 140gr CLUB Zero, these 154gr are about 1 inch high of aim.
cheers
Click to expand...
I've had good luck with the 154's in my 7mm-08's. Better in the longer barrels, but still potent in the 18 and 20 inch versions. - dan
 
I've mentioned this in another thread and keep sticking with it.

120 gr ttsx (blue tip) over H4895. All other stuff wasn;t shooting well in my specific rifle for my purpose...
 
DRT today at 200m through the shoulders of a young spiker sambar :) that was with the 160s, but would of been a fine test for the 154s...

wont justify paying the TTSX prices here, about $110 for 50 projectiles
 
I use 7-08 a lot, and have come to believe premium bullets are a waste of money, 139, 154 Interlocks are great, lately I have been working with 145 Hot core’s and they seem to be perfect, with IMR 4350 they are moving around 2800.
 
bunny said:
I use 7-08 a lot, and have come to believe premium bullets are a waste of money, 139, 154 Interlocks are great, lately I have been working with 145 Hot core’s and they seem to be perfect, with IMR 4350 they are moving around 2800.
Click to expand...
Big fan of the 7mm 08 these days -
what sorta critters are you taking with yours?

i always wanted the 145gr Grand slam to work but with the current set up , it just doesnt seem to want to come together- i didnt look into the 145 gr speer any further.. down here the BTSP is $10 a box cheaper than the "spitzer" ... i have heard the BTSP is a fair bit softer ?

i do have 70 odd Grand slams , which in a emergency situation- they shoot Minute of Deer for sure, would kill out 200m no worries with average groups around 1.5 to closer to 2 inch groups.... they are my back up back up projies.
 
WhelanLad said:
Big fan of the 7mm 08 these days -
what sorta critters are you taking with yours?

i always wanted the 145gr Grand slam to work but with the current set up , it just doesnt seem to want to come together- i didnt look into the 145 gr speer any further.. down here the BTSP is $10 a box cheaper than the "spitzer" ... i have heard the BTSP is a fair bit softer ?

i do have 70 odd Grand slams , which in a emergency situation- they shoot Minute of Deer for sure, would kill out 200m no worries with average groups around 1.5 to closer to 2 inch groups.... they are my back up back up projies.
Click to expand...
Do you have access to 139 gr Hornadys? I've found them to be quite accurate in three of my 7mm-08's, and they work great on deer sized game. - dan
 
WhelanLad said:
Big fan of the 7mm 08 these days -
what sorta critters are you taking with yours?

i always wanted the 145gr Grand slam to work but with the current set up , it just doesnt seem to want to come together- i didnt look into the 145 gr speer any further.. down here the BTSP is $10 a box cheaper than the "spitzer" ... i have heard the BTSP is a fair bit softer ?

i do have 70 odd Grand slams , which in a emergency situation- they shoot Minute of Deer for sure, would kill out 200m no worries with average groups around 1.5 to closer to 2 inch groups.... they are my back up back up projies.
Click to expand...
I like the Speer 145gr BTSP have used it on moose, elk, deer mountain goats, wolves etc load it in 3 different 7mm-08s
 
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