TERMINATOR101CA
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Expert Dog Trainer Robert Milner Says Heck No to Shock Collars.
- Thread starter Calum
- Start date
That is not exactly true. Sometimes training without e-collar is impossible without endangering life of the dog. Besides, what do you mean by the "most professional trainers"? Police K-9 trainers? Military K-9 trainers?
Misuse of e-collars by non-stable dog owners created bad public opinion about them exactly in the same manner as it was created about firearms.
Interesting one of the comments mentioned the shock collar was more effective if the dog did not realise the owner was doing it. I was considering one to stop my dog from chasing vehicles. Then we cured that, however when the coyotes start talking and he wants to go for a visit, it makes me wonder if the control a collar would give me is the right way to go? To reinforce recall in those types of cases.
After being a member of a local retriever club back home in Ontario, Ive seen my fair share benefits and downsides to using collars, seen great dogs almost get wrecked by collars, and great dogs trained with collars, guys who have been extremely hard on dogs with a collar, guys that may have been too soft, but one thing I don't think is fair to say is they aren't a useful tool. Ive heard it time and time again "If you can't train without a collar, you can't train with one....". Theres so much truth to that! I think that lots of guys buy collars with no experience with them, dont go through collar conditioning with the dog, dont educate themselves with the unit, and expect it to do miracles on a dog. Then when the dog screws up? they burn that dog up like no tomorrow thinking it will be an auto "fix", every time the dog acts like a putz or the owner is hot headed which can do more harm than good....The plus side? After the dog is taught how to turn the collar off through collar conditioning, training has advanced, etc.... It sure makes things easier when you have him or her stopped on a sit whistle on the way to a blind retrieve, then they decide to go into the bullheaded auto-cast not listening to you at all? You gonna ignore that bad behaviour like Mr. Milner says? I thought so. So when your walking up to the holding blind and your dog won't heel, won't sit, won't listen, then he cocks his leg and takes a piss on the blind in front of everyone just to display his dominance over you, you going to ignore that? Nope. Say what you want, they definitely are a useful tool in the right hands! Personally, myself, I use it when in the blind, nobody enjoys a dog that breaks, can't stay quiet or stay put, its a safety thing.. Just my 2 cents
canadian hunter312
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the idea is to make the dog think the correction is coming directly from you, not the caller. this makes the dog believe that you can correct him at any time no matter how far away he is from you and can work wonders for even the "stupidest" dog out there. if you let the dog figure out that it's the collar that's correcting him you'll often have problems with the dog not listening when it's not wearing the collar. they really do work well when used properly. as some have mentioned here, it's normal to only use the collar for a short period of time and it's no longer needed.
the lab is 100% perfect and doesn't need the collar, but the hound still needs the odd strong correction to break her off a hot trail. anyone who has seen a beagle/walker hound on a fresh deer or rabbit trail will know exactly how hard it is to get the dog out of the zone.
Ha-ha +1
Dominion Link
CGN frequent flyer
I've never felt the need to use an electric collar while training our German Sheperd- she's always been very intuitive and willing to cooperate and learn. I've also never used an e collar on our Lab/Sheperd cross, or even our Jack Russell..... However, I have used my Tritronics on my Plott hounds, primarily as an aid to get them to quit hunting and allow themselves to be caught up. I have found that very mild stimulation along with a reassuring tone when calling them can get them to a point where they will come in to me from hundreds of yards away. Hounds have hundreds of years of breeding for drive and independence. Once they get hunting it can be very difficult to get them to listen, and in fact a lot of hounds will avoid getting caught up because their desire to keep hunting is so great. It's not necessarily the same for a hound that has been raised a pet and never really learned to hunt. But if they have been worked and know what they are doing on a track, they are very single minded- which is exactly what you want while hunting, but at some point you need to catch them, prevent them from getting too close to busy roads or break them from running off game. The appropriate use of tracking systems and e-collars, I'm certain, has allowed many owners to accelerate their hounds training and prevented a lot of road deaths.
I'm no expert but have trained a few French Britts over the years and know 100% they are not required with that breed. Love , treats and a lot of time is all that is required. My dogs are voice, hand and whistle trained and a good stink eye from me or whistle blast is all that is required to set them straight.
I am not for or against the collars but feel a lot has to do with the breed and the amount of time the trainer is willing to put in.
I am not for or against the collars but feel a lot has to do with the breed and the amount of time the trainer is willing to put in.
the idea is to make the dog think the correction is coming directly from you, not the caller. this makes the dog believe that you can correct him at any time no matter how far away he is from you and can work wonders for even the "stupidest" dog out there. if you let the dog figure out that it's the collar that's correcting him you'll often have problems with the dog not listening when it's not wearing the collar. they really do work well when used properly. as some have mentioned here, it's normal to only use the collar for a short period of time and it's no longer needed.
the lab is 100% perfect and doesn't need the collar, but the hound still needs the odd strong correction to break her off a hot trail. anyone who has seen a beagle/walker hound on a fresh deer or rabbit trail will know exactly how hard it is to get the dog out of the zone.
I am the one that posted that, When I bought my E collar it came with a book and DVD and I ordered Walk With Wick Vol. 1 and2. just to make sure I had lots of info on how to use the collar properly. Both TriTronics and John Wick ( if you know coonhounds you know who this great man is) say you dont want the dog to know the correction comes from you. The idea is to have the correction come from thin air and for many reasons, one being that you want the dog to learn from experance so it acts as trained when your not in sight. Also shocking a dog has the same effect as "touching" the dog witch in the eyes of a dog is a negative experance with the master. It is very rare that my Redbones get shocked as my set up also has a warning or reminder beep, but when I do shock them they always no matter what come check in with me. Next I praise them and let them kiss me and off they go to continue the hunt. After reading Johns books I decided to use his style of training. My dogs have no clue that I am the one that doesnt want them to chase deer or chase the mail mans car. When the dogs are in the house they actually get very exited to see the collars come off the charging cradle, to them it means outside time. You should see them when they hear the brass bells they ware for hunting lol off the wall!
E collars have their place.
Sometimes you need the reach.
I bought mine to break my hounds attention from what she decided was the better thing to do (chasing deer, chasing other dogs) rather than listening to the recall. It worked, and has not been required since.
All tools have their place. All tools can be abused.
Cheers
Trev
Sometimes you need the reach.
I bought mine to break my hounds attention from what she decided was the better thing to do (chasing deer, chasing other dogs) rather than listening to the recall. It worked, and has not been required since.
All tools have their place. All tools can be abused.
Cheers
Trev
x 2
Bang on.
the spank
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- Planet Earth Wearing My Tinfoil Hat
Well said Chad.....and I have spent plenty of days afield with you and Jamie to see the benefits of collar conditioning a dog properly! Yours and his dogs are a pleasure to hunt over and with!!
My dog knows the commands, she learned them through positive reinforcement. But she used to ignore my commands when out in the field, thinking 'You can't do nothing'. She learned to no longer act that way. The collar now provides just the rare beep, almost never a shock.
Good stuff. I have two labs one black one yellow.The black is a machine and wears the collar but rarely ever needs it. For him its just so he realizes I am still in control when hes on a retrieve 300m away.More psychological than anything. The yellow ,on the other hand, is a total #### at times and needs the collar to remind him that he is not in control,I am.
