External Extractors & the 1911

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X-man

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Was handling a new 1911 the other day that had an external extractor...looking at that pistol I though to myself, now there's an answer to a problem that wasn't...

It was a beautiful Kimber, but that cut in the slide for the extractor and the extractor itself, just ruined the whole look of the pistol. It didn't have that unforgettable line of Browning's Ol' Slabsides...kinda' ruined the whole pistol for me.

I know they're not a "new" thing, but I really hadn't had much cause to use/handle 1911s with the external extractor. Personally, I wouldn't buy a pistol with one...kinda' sacriligeous(sp?). What do you guys think? Pros & Cons of the EE?
 
If you believe the hype, the external extractor is an 'improvement' on the basic design...in reality, a 'fix' for a non-existing problem.
In a head to head, shoot 'em 'til they fail comparison, it's unlikely they're would be an appreciable difference, as it's not likely the extractor that's going to fail.
In either case, internal or not, if the extractor goes..at the range, it's a nuisance, if it happens for real, you'd better have a backup or else KYAGB!
Personally, I find it easier to service an internal extractor as, if it's a case of
tension, it's relatively easy to 'tweak'. It it breaks, there's not much difference.
I have 1911's with both systems, and apart from idiosynchracies related to the individual manufacturers, it's pretty much a wash......
 
This is a question in search of a debate. Browning designs that both preceeded and followed the 1911 used external extractors and while the external extractor wasn't part of the 1911 design it's been successfully incorporated in many subsequent versions from other makers.

I don't have a preference between the two. My S&W1911 has an external extractor but I doubt I'd be any less satisifed with a Colt or Springfield that had internal extractor.
 
The internal extractor works great and when made of spring steel which few are these days is not as prone to breakage as the newer tool steel internal extractors. Both styles will break if you drop the slide on a chambered round as the extractor is not designed to slip over the rim and can break at that point.

Para overcame this problem by making their new power extractor which has a huge claw on it and works with a coil spring which won't break if you drop the slide on a chambered round.

IMHO the coil spring extractor is an improvement over the spring steel design. FN went to the exrternal extractor in the 50's/60's and I don't here to many comments regarding the look of the Hi-Power.

With Para you have the best of both worlds an internal extractor and the coil spring.

As an aside Kimber, I heard was now producing with the internal extractor due to problems with their external ones. S&W is one company that I have heard got their external extractor right.

Take Care

Bob
 
My Kimber has an external and it's never had a problem. I like it because it is a trouble free part. How many people here have had to replace the extractors on their Glocks, HKs, Berettas, etc.? I would hunch not that many. Now how many 1911's get tuned extractor work ;)

Oh and so you know, Kimber did not discontinue the EE. There are two models of Kimber which still have the EE and will continue to have the EE. One being the Custom Stainless TLE II. I forget the other model.

Enjoy~

mykimber_002.jpg
 
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G37 said:
My Kimber has an external and it's never had a problem. I like it because it is a trouble free part. How many people here have had to replace the extractors on their Glocks, HKs, Berettas, etc.? I would hunch not that many. Now how many 1911's get tuned extractor work ;)

Oh and so you know, Kimber did not discontinue the EE. There are two models of Kimber which still have the EE and will continue to have the EE. One being the Custom Stainless TLE II. I forget the other model.

Enjoy~
Click to expand...
I'm glad that your gun works well (how many rounds do you have through it by the way?) but Kimber's external extractor problems are almost legendary. Do a search for "extractor problems" on the Kimber board and you'll get hundreds of threads on that issue. That is not to say that external extractors are inherently unreliable, but rather that Kimber's implementation leaves much to be desired.
 
G37 said:
My Kimber has an external and it's never had a problem. I like it because it is a trouble free part. How many people here have had to replace the extractors on their Glocks, HKs, Berettas, etc.? I would hunch not that many. Now how many 1911's get tuned extractor work ;)

Oh and so you know, Kimber did not discontinue the EE. There are two models of Kimber which still have the EE and will continue to have the EE. One being the Custom Stainless TLE II. I forget the other model.

Enjoy~
Click to expand...

I wonder why my non-stainless TLE II has an internal extractor... doesn't make any sense that they'd change it around depending the finish of the gun.
 
No idea either... all I know is that Stainless TLE II's all come with External Extractors still (one other model as well which I also believe is Stainless).

From the research I did it seems that the EE in the early days was having reliability problems on all Non-Gov't length slides.
 
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Just went to the Kimber Website. None of the pistols shown have the external extractor any more. I am almost sure Kimber has dropped the external extractor from their production. I suspect the Kimbers with the external extractor are old stock.

Take Care

Bob
 
Canuck44 said:
Just went to the Kimber Website. None of the pistols shown have the external extractor any more. I am almost sure Kimber has dropped the external extractor from their production. I suspect the Kimbers with the external extractor are old stock.

Take Care

Bob
Click to expand...


Actually, on their website you can't see the ejection side. I don't know how you came to that conclusion based on that picture.
Here is an email sent recently from a guy who inquired to the source (Kimber) at the beginning of the month.

Taken from:
http ://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=154837

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Carl Flesch
To: ***** ***
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 3:38 PM
Subject: RE: Ordering info on Stainless Steel TLE II


*****,



Thank you for your email and question. The Stainless TLE II you ordered will have an external extractor. To obtain delivery status, please have your dealer contact their sales representative and they will be glad to help with an anticipated delivery date.



If you have any further questions please let me know and I will be glad to help you.




Thank you and best regards,



Carl Flesch

Technical Representative

1-888-243-4522 ext 223

Kimber Mfg. Inc.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It just goes to show how powerful the Internet Hype can be... everyone swears the External Extrator was discontinued, but apparently from the talk on 1911forum and the new Kimber catalog it tells a different story. The Kimber EE is almost as infamous as the Glock 22 KB!!

I am not trying to convert anyone... just stating the facts. You either hate the idea of an EE or don't mind the EE. I don't mind it. By the way, mine was new in Sept.2006 imported from Questar (who gets it from the source as well).

~Cheers
 
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Actually you can.

The Stainless model is the only one that has the internal extractor and bets are when the supply of those guns runs out that will be the last of the external extractors from Kimber.

As Cap325 stated the problems Kimber had with their external extractors is almost lengendary. Glad to hear yours works.
Take Care

Bob
 
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Ok, I am going to write Kimber today and put this to rest... I will post the answer when I get a reply in the next few days :)


EDIT:
Email has been sent :)
 
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THE CONCLUSION... PEASE PUT AN END TO INTERNET RUMOUR (It's hasn't been discontinued):
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



*****,

Thank you for your email and questions. Kimber still uses the External extractor on the Stainless TLE II and the Team Match II. This system can be harder to tune, but when properly tuned it is incredibly reliable and will not require retuning. The internal style requires more tuning, but it is very easy to tune, so these are the differences. Both systems when properly tuned are great and work extremely well.

Your pistol was manufactured on 4/**/2006.

If you have any further questions please let me know and I will be glad to help you.

Thank you and best regards,

Carl Flesch
Technical Representative
1-888-243-4522 ext 223
Kimber Mfg. Inc.

-----Original Message-----
From: *****@*****.***
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 3:12 PM
To: info
Subject: Is it true or false: Was the External Extractor discontinued?



Hi,


I have a new Stainless TLE II with External Extractor which is working
great; I love it actually. However, there are many individuals out there who are all insisting that my pistol is OLD STOCK because Kimber has discontinued
the EE because they all claim the design was flawed.

I've decided to write you today to get some clarification and hopefully
put an end to this silliness and the question "Was the External Extractor
discontinued?"

Best regards,
***** ******


P.S. My S/N is ****** - Could you tell my my pistols Birthday (or
roughly the time it was made)?

Thanks again!!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



There you have it!
BTW I am liking Kimber alot again these days :D... I love their customer support.
 
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Canuck44 said:
And Kimber offers to replace slides with the external extractor for free because...
Click to expand...

Because some people have convinced themselves that the external extractor cannot work.
 
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