F-Class Rifle Build

Sirius

Sirius

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Hello all,

I a plan to get into F-class shooting this year, and was looking to put together an M40A3 clone. I just received my PAL in the mail a few weeks ago, and was hoping someone could steer me in the right direction, and answer a couple of questions.

Like I said, I am looking to build an M40A3 clone based on a Remington 700. I would love for the finished product to look even remotely like this:

M40A3004-1.jpg

M40A3007.jpg


My local shop is Shooter's choice in Waterloo, ON. If I purchase the rifle at SC, then I have a few 700 variants to choose from: http://www.shooterschoice.com/remington/remington.htm

Can anyone recommend the best choice of the 700's offered by SC, keeping in mind I am leaning towards a rifle chambered in .308 with a detachable box magazine?

Also, where can I purchase a McMillan or Bell & Carlson tactical stock in Canada?

Finally, I have heard good things about the SWFA Super Sniper scopes, are these scopes stocked anywhere in Canada? If not, would it be legal to import an SS scope, or any rifle optics for that matter, from the US?

Thanks for reading, any advice is highly appreciated.
 
Although that is a very nice looking rifle, for F class, you are giving yourself some serious handicapps.

F class is a well defined shooting discipline where every part of the rifle is optimised to meet a particular goal.

The rifle you have pictured is a wonderful field rifle but you are not using your resources to its fullest advantage.

And it is costing you a small fortune.

The Rem 700 will do you very well but you don't need a mag (not legal anyways), the harris is a handicap (look at a Remple or other skipod).

The scope mag is too low and the reticles too coarse. And the click values will likely either be too coarse or the wrong 'math'.

The stock is not ideal and likely pretty heavy.

The barrel too short and you can go with a heavier contour.

I am not saying the rig pictured is 'bad'. Just that is not ideal for the task you want.

There are lots of pics of competitive rigs on 6mmBR.com and other F class forums. They look the way they do for a reason.

Hope this helps.

Jerry
 
mysticplayer said:
Although that is a very nice looking rifle, for F class, you are giving yourself some serious handicapps.

F class is a well defined shooting discipline where every part of the rifle is optimised to meet a particular goal.

The rifle you have pictured is a wonderful field rifle but you are not using your resources to its fullest advantage.

And it is costing you a small fortune.

The Rem 700 will do you very well but you don't need a mag (not legal anyways), the harris is a handicap (look at a Remple or other skipod).

The scope mag is too low and the reticles too coarse. And the click values will likely either be too coarse or the wrong 'math'.

The stock is not ideal and likely pretty heavy.

The barrel too short and you can go with a heavier contour.

I am not saying the rig pictured is 'bad'. Just that is not ideal for the task you want.

There are lots of pics of competitive rigs on 6mmBR.com and other F class forums. They look the way they do for a reason.

Hope this helps.

Jerry
Click to expand...

The magazine is indeed legal in f-class shooting, feeding from the magazine is another story....F-Class is single load only. The installation of an inexpensive single shot follower will help with this task and can be removed for those days when you want to load up the magazine at the range or the varmint patch.

If shooting in F-TR (.308/.223) then the Harris bi-pod is completely fine as the weight of a Rempel Bi-Pod would, most likely, put the rifle over the 18lb limit.

There is a Tac shooter that shoots at Vokes in F-Class (F-TR) with his coarse reticled S&B, while it is not my cup of tea, it is at least usable.

Typically the build you are looking at is geared more toward Tac shooting rather than F-Class but it is still quite usable in the configuration you pictured.

F-Class rigs are indeed purpose built, you won't be hunting with it, you won't be run and gunning in a Tac match with one either. They are usually heavy (up to the 22lb limit) and mostly in calibers that are not ready available at your local gun shops ammo shelf.

Here are a couple of my purpose built F-Class rigs for comparison:

Remington XR-100 Action and Stock
Jewell Trigger
6mm Krieger Barrel in a straight 1.25" from breech to muzzle (10lbs on it's own) chambered in 6mm BR
Rempel Bi-Pod
12-42x56 Nightforce Benchrest Scope with NP-2DD Reticle ( http://nightforceoptics.com/nightforcescopes/RETICLES_OVERVIEW/RETICLES_DETAIL/NP-2DD-15x.pdf )
P1010672.jpg


KB9W1875.jpg


KB9W1873copy.jpg



Rem 700 Action with Single Shot Follower glued in place
Jewell Trigger
Henry Rempel Stock
Krieger 6.5mm Barrel (17A Contour - 1" at muzzle) chambered in 6.5-08
Rempel Bi-Pod
12-42x56 Nightforce Benchrest Scope with NP-2DD Reticle ( http://nightforceoptics.com/nightforcescopes/RETICLES_OVERVIEW/RETICLES_DETAIL/NP-2DD-15x.pdf )
KB9W2013copy.jpg


KB9W2015copy.jpg


KB9W2003copy.jpg
 
Hey there,

You'd be delving into a very serious investment in time and money. I had Casey at Tactical Ordnance build me a 100% USMC spec M40A3 last year.

M40A31.jpg


That build would involve some parts that are almost unobtainable if you want 100% trueness. Badger rings for instance, are not exportable at this time, as well as the badger bottom metal - the Simrad scope cap is also a very hard piece to find.

Never mind trying to find the DD Ross scope base.

The stock is a fairly easy thing to get - John Wall(Wallbanger) here sells them in Canada - 100% USMC A4 Mcmillan, what they use.

The rem 700 is any old SPS "G" series action, as the USMC bought these right off the shelf from Remington.

Also, helps when you have all the correct info as well.

The labour isn't the glitch, it's the cost of all the parts. The Schmidt Bender PM II 3-12x50 scope that you'd need would be at least $3200 unless Wolverine prices have changed any.

If you are serious about this, I could help you out for the full specs and knowhow.

All the best, Carl
 
I made several trips down the tactical road...The rifles are super cool and shoot very well. Most of my tac rifles also work as long rang hunting rifles so are appropriatly chambered.

As accurate as they are F-class rifles must deliver a higher level of accuracy. The 300Winchester (for instance) just can not be as consistently competitive as a 6mmbr...Not even close.

F-class rifles deserve a different stock that reflects the nature of the sport. Robertson Composites has what looks like a winner. My A-5 McMillans just don't offer the same levels of stability or tracking.
 
Thanks guys, you've all made some good points.

As for the build, seeing as it is my first rifle, I was planning on a versatile rig, something I can use as a paper puncher, a hunting rifle, and a tactical shooting platform. Hence the detachable magazine and .308 chamber. I figure that the .308 will allow me to use the rifle for a variety of shooting sports, and to practice my technique before venturing into F-class shooting. I realize there are several loads with better Ballistic Coefficient values than .308, but .308 is a proven platform and I can always swap out the barrel and use .260 Remington if need be right? Additionally, cost of ammunition was a deciding factor, as I don't plan to reload until after my first year of shooting. Perhaps I shouldn't think of this as an F-class rifle at all, as I will probably want to build a dedicated F-class rifle once I get into the sport.

As for the scope, I realize the SWFA SS optics are no where near comparable to S&B, Nightforce or Leupold glass, but I figured they would be a decent, affordable choice. I was planning on swapping the SS scope for a Leupold Mark 4 down the line, and placing the SS scope on a Norinco M14, should I pick one up.

Beautiful rigs Cyan1de and tps50701, for different reasons of course!
 
You're talking about a very large investment to reach the F-class level upon getting involved with shooting only recently. It's a very inspiring goal yet you might be trying to run before you can walk.

You don't have to take my advice but I will offer it for the taking. Precision rifle shooting is also new for myself but I didn't jump into the 1k yard competition class right away. The best way to start off which is how I pursued it, and I was shown by a very good marksman, is to put several boxes of .22LR through a Ruger 10/22 or similar.

With the .22, shoot 25 yards, shoot 50 yards, shoot 100 yards, and shoot lots, shoot often, shoot badly or well, it doesn't matter. Practice is what 99% of shooting is. Learn to ignore recoil, how to recover from a flinch quickly, how to control your heart rate, how to setup your rifle... so many things that a small caliber can teach you in an inexpensive manner.

After you feel comfortable with a .22, get a slightly bigger caliber, .223rem for example. Start reloading, like I recently did. Learn how to customize a cartridge for your rifle, it's great fun. Learn how to maintain a rifle and keep it on it's A-game.

Then you may want to add that bottom metal, a trigger group, match barrel, better rings/base, better glass, stock... of course all of this will require gunsmithing so your rifle will be out of house for several weeks.... likely best to have a backup to keep up on your skills.

Walk before you run. Nothing funnier than a sweet looking tactical rig in front of an idiot that can't shoot it-I'd hate to see another one at the range. Not trying to discourage you, just open your eyes to this sport. You will not get good at it quickly, it takes a lot of time and effort and the reward will simply be some close together holes poked in a sheet of paper, stapled to a target board, really far away. For myself, goofy holes in far away paper brings a smile to my face every time.
 
One of the almost universal desires/mistakes made by those wanting to delve seriously into fullbore shooting is the one-gun-fits-all philosophy.

I am a hopelessly addicted F-Class shooter, varmint hunter and bambi whacker.

Each of these "disciplines" has unique characteristics that has specific requirements in terms of an optimal firearm. To try and build a "Sport Utility Rifle" means you will be having to cut corners on one discipline to satisfy another.

The ultimate F-Class Gun:

- Extremely accurate, with a throat, twist and chamber for the one type of ammo that you want to use for long distance shooting.
-Single Shot
- As close to your maximum alloted weight as your class will allow
-long heavy barrel for both maximum velocity and future set-back.
-Stock that is ergonomically suited for prone shooting
-Extremely good quality scope, 1/8 MOA and a very fine target dot reticle. AO focus is more common.
- minimum of 25X magnification
-Scope taper to optimize shooting at long range.
-caliber and cartridge that can allow you to shoot up to 25 shots in relatively quick succession
- BR type trigger set very light
_BR type rest system (Wide Bipod or pedestal rest) as lateral movement not needed

Ultimate Hunting Gun:

- LIGHT
- Magazine fed, hard-hitting caliber for type of game
- Stock designed for off-hand shooting
- 3-9X scope, duplex reticle. High power poor choice for off-hand shooting and fast target acquisition
- accuracy requirement significantly less demanding
- short barrel for fast aim
-chamber not important as bullet are not seating depth sensitive.
-Maybe a long leg-bipod

Ultimate Varmint Gun

- Weight - unlimited
- Caliber: FAST, Small. Distances typically less than 400 yards. (204, 223, or 243 with lightest bullets for maximum velocity)
- Stock: Optimal for bench type shooting
- Scope: Wide field of view, typically less than 25X, side focus,
- scope base for 0 - 400 yards
- Magazine-fed or single shot.
- Rest system to allow easy fast lateral movement (sled, Harris, gopher chair)

So, There are similarites between Varmint and F-Class guns, but hunting rifles are in a class by themselves.

If you have your heart set on an M40A3 clone, understand your priority is not based on functional practicality. It doesn't fit anwhere in this matrix.
 
Sirius said:
Thanks guys, you've all made some good points.

As for the build, seeing as it is my first rifle, I was planning on a versatile rig, something I can use as a paper puncher, a hunting rifle, and a tactical shooting platform. Hence the detachable magazine and .308 chamber. I figure that the .308 will allow me to use the rifle for a variety of shooting sports, and to practice my technique before venturing into F-class shooting. I realize there are several loads with better Ballistic Coefficient values than .308, but .308 is a proven platform and I can always swap out the barrel and use .260 Remington if need be right? Additionally, cost of ammunition was a deciding factor, as I don't plan to reload until after my first year of shooting. Perhaps I shouldn't think of this as an F-class rifle at all, as I will probably want to build a dedicated F-class rifle once I get into the sport.

As for the scope, I realize the SWFA SS optics are no where near comparable to S&B, Nightforce or Leupold glass, but I figured they would be a decent, affordable choice. I was planning on swapping the SS scope for a Leupold Mark 4 down the line, and placing the SS scope on a Norinco M14, should I pick one up.

Beautiful rigs Cyan1de and tps50701, for different reasons of course!
Click to expand...

A basic reloading kit is not expensive and IMHO not being able to reload is having the cart before the horse.

In many ways the gun is the least important component to success.
Rounds down range make the difference.
Give a great shooter an average rifle with a match barrel and he will still likely have a seat in the winners circle.

If I were on a budget I would look hard at a stock Remington sps or Savage in 223....223 bullets are cheap.

noneck180,
Not currently being an F-Classer, but having done some homework I will venture out on a limb here.
I don't think the construction of iether stock is at issue.
I think Robertson's F-Class stock currently has the best overall design. Ian pays a lot of attention to the small details and I think it shows.
McMillan builds a good F-classer as well, but many top shooters seem to prefer Ians stock.
I believe the Robertson is also a bit cheaper.
 
Alright fellas, just one more question if you don't mind.

Ammunition cost is a determining factor for me, and I have narrowed my practical long-range rifle build down to two calibers: .308 and .270 WIN.

Should I choose the .308 route, I plan to purchase a Remington 700 SPS, and add a Badger DBM from Wolverine, as well as a McMillan A4 or A5 stock.

Alternately, I could purchase a Rem 700 SPS Detachable Magazine rifle in .270, and add a McMillan A4 or A5 stock.

I am leaning towards the .308 system because of ammunition cost and versatility, but I find the .270 SPS DM attractive because its a detachable magazine rifle for $30.00 than a regular SPS.

Can someone set me straight?
 
.308 will put you into F/TR class, while .270 will be F/open.

'IF' you are looking to be competetive, choose wisely, F/open is where all the super fancy custom rifles hang out. F/TR is more restricted, thus my choice for beginning my journey into F-class shooting.

Shot my first F/TR competition this weekend at the APRA range. Very humbling experience, I need to learn the wind.....
 
X fan , some of what you say is true.
Try looking at it from the other side. It's not all the pluses you build into the rifle its all the deficincies you cancel out.
Your taking away all the parts / pieces/ techniques that hold you back from shooting perfect shots on target. A person with enough cash can buy/build "thee" rifle and then it becomes the shooter who has to catch up and learn to shoot as well as the rifle can/will.
Certain changes along the way yield better inprovements than others. If you,ve the funds for a complete build (which everyone should do once) then you pick the best of the best and go to it. When recommending upgrades to shooters you have to keep in mind what is the budget, when will the person find the cost excessive and what is the shooter willing to settle with in regards to level of performance.

At the end of the day it's predictably the guy (f-open) with the best barrell, best stock, best trigger, best glass, best mounts, best habits, best mental dicipline and most experience (puff, puff) that's standing next to the trophy table. (part of why people call it a money race)

Your reloading will also have to be as precise as your rifle and your shooting techniques or you,ll get beat that way too.

When people ask me for ideas or my thoughts I suggest buy decent equipment the first time , buying one Cadillac is cheaper in the long run than 3 chevys.
Get a decent rifle to start, decent glass (not recommending anyone run out first time and buy a timberwolf with a N/F scope) and decent reloading equipment in a caliber that's cheap to load for and , shoot, shoot, shoot. There's no substitute for trigger time.
Once you can out shoot the equipment you own then start to upgrade (my origional suggestion was a decent rifle not something that's useless at upgrade time.)

But as I said , when I build something I don't build in pluses I remove limitations.

M.
 
Since we were mentioned I will chime in here. Someone said "So is it design? or does Robertson use better fiberglass than Mcmillan?"
We do use better grade aircraft certified materials but the main difference is that we put more effort into every stock we make. As we get bigger we find we must pay more and more attention to quality. Kelly and I and Dale, our new general manager, feel quite comfortable rejecting a stock worked on by anyone (me included!) that does not meet muster. If we can not rectify the problem we will remake the stock. That is the bottom line. We are constantly told we are the best (agreed, not the biggest) in the world (wish I could shoot to those standards!).
 
I have added this as a separate post. Paying big bucks for a knock off sniper gun will not assure anyone of the best shooting gun. If you want to shoot F then look at what you get for your $ and who is building it for you. I will be the first to admit that we have lost sales because we have not charged enough. There are lots that seem to think if they pay more they will shoot better. I guess we need to raise our prices a bunch!
 
Although used all too often as a yardstick, price does not guarantee much of anything except alot less money in the wallet.

Unfortunately, I have seen some seriously expensive tactical rigs that wouldn't feed ammo from the mag.

So going by price alone can be misleading.

The key is spending ENOUGH to get the job done AND getting parts that actually will help you shoot your best.

It doesn't have to cost 5 digits but it will be very hard to do it for under $2000 w/competitive optics.

For a competitive F class rig, I want something that will hold the V or X ring on the very last shot of the relay. Consistent accuracy in a driveable rig.

YMMV...

Jerry
 
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