F Class with short barrel?
- Thread starter Robbs
- Start date
Shortest I've seen was a 24" on a 300 WSM, and a couple of guys with the standard barrels on PGW Coyotes. Even at 24" they were the exception.
Certainly not saying it can't be done, but most guys don't want to give up the extra MV from the longer barrel at 900m.
Certainly not saying it can't be done, but most guys don't want to give up the extra MV from the longer barrel at 900m.
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A guy can do ok at shorter ranges with a short barrel - maybe out to 600 yards when conditions are calm.
Short is a relative term depending upon caliber. If it's a 308 - 20 inches is really short - if it's a 223 or 6BR 20-23 inches is not so bad.
Short is a relative term depending upon caliber. If it's a 308 - 20 inches is really short - if it's a 223 or 6BR 20-23 inches is not so bad.
shot my 20'' in 6 br in kamloops last year, my first time shooting fclass.
the gun shot well, i actually shot better at 500 than 300. the same will be used by a freind this june in kamloops, running 90 berger target bt's.
i'll be running 6br with 105 vld's in my pierce action and custom gunworx stock, lee
the gun shot well, i actually shot better at 500 than 300. the same will be used by a freind this june in kamloops, running 90 berger target bt's.
i'll be running 6br with 105 vld's in my pierce action and custom gunworx stock, lee
- Location
- calgary alberta
Please do NOT make claims like this near any of my 308s. They might believe this crap. I shoot a pair of 22" barrelled 308s well beyond the 1000 yard mark. Several of my employees also shoot similar rigs with the same results as do many of our clients.
My best to date was clay pigeons in a sand bank set out at 1400 yards.
I have a minor tantrum as most of my people do, when we miss the 2.5" gong at 1000 yards. I do not know where all these ideas of shorter barrels only being able to shoot close range come from.
From the 1970's... when bullet and powder selection were limited and people still had the notion that you couldn't fire a bullet heavier than 175 gr. out of a 308.
Its funny how many people out there don't understand external ballistics, and continue to push the long barrel is needed or your #### will fall off nonsense when they aren't even shooting a load that takes advantage of the added barrel length. Your 30" barrel shoot a 155 Scenar at ~3050 fps? That's nice! My 22" barrel sends a 208 AMAX out at 2580 fps. I have 12" LESS wind drift at 1000 yards (10 MPH wind) than you do!
Added barrel length mean nothing if you aren't shooting a load that takes advantage of it. Being more intelligent about bullet and load selection can offset the difference in ATTAINABLE velocity. Keep in mind that nobody shoots their load at it's maximum velocity, they shoot it at the highest accuracy node. Accuracy nodes are usually found at a similar velocity for a range of barrel lengths. It's pointless to add barrel length if it doesn't allow you to get to a higher accuracy node.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
you can shoot a HG long range if you wanted to. Bullets really don't care how fast they are launched.
We use long barrels in any shooting disciplines that makes sense due to the desire to get as much velocity we can for the given amount of powder burnt.
Long barrels, to a point, allow us to reach desired speeds burning the least amount of powder or getting the most out of what little powder we are allowed to burn.
No more no less.
we know that the longer the pipe, the higher the chance that accuracy tuning becomes more problematic so "shorter" is easier.
It is all a compromise about the tasks and what we feel is the best tech for the given components we have to work with.
Change the rules and the rifles would change drastically.
Not right, not wrong. Just trying to gain any ballistic advantage we can without compromising other parameters.... and the box that the rules create
Jerry
We use long barrels in any shooting disciplines that makes sense due to the desire to get as much velocity we can for the given amount of powder burnt.
Long barrels, to a point, allow us to reach desired speeds burning the least amount of powder or getting the most out of what little powder we are allowed to burn.
No more no less.
we know that the longer the pipe, the higher the chance that accuracy tuning becomes more problematic so "shorter" is easier.
It is all a compromise about the tasks and what we feel is the best tech for the given components we have to work with.
Change the rules and the rifles would change drastically.
Not right, not wrong. Just trying to gain any ballistic advantage we can without compromising other parameters.... and the box that the rules create
Jerry
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Are you suggesting that you guys can average 1/4 min or better at 1000yds?
Jerry
- Location
- calgary alberta
Many days we do, other days no so much. You know how that works, some days it just doesn't pay to get out of bed, so to speak and others, thankfully more than most it does.
A few years ago you hosted a shoot that some of "us" attended. This was when we shot clay birds for the 1st time at real distance. as I recall 3 of "us" managed a large number of broken birds at the 1400 yard mark you set them at with our stubby little barrels.
MikeTheRock
Regular
- Location
- Calgary, AB
+1 this
lejarretnoir
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- 162km from Connaught
Not saying short barrels won't shoot, but I just don't see them dominating @ 1000yds in F-Class as my experience is limited to that.
2.5" @ 1000yds most of the time? That's quite the claim. What bullets are accomplishing this?
gunrunner8
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Kamloops, B.C.
2,5" @ 1000yds most of the time.....in somebodys dreams....I call it as it should be called, a bs.
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- Location
- calgary alberta
190 gr SMKs
I've been shooting the 190 SMK for years. While there are bullets with better BC out there, I've never found one that gives me the consistent performance that it gives, in any of my barrels.
How many people actually do things like analyse ballistics vs. follow the pack and just accept statements like "short barrels won't work past 600/800 yards" at face value?
Yes, the longer barrel has a better potential to deliver superior ballistics. But, that doesn't mean people are taking advantage of that potential. A 155 gr. bullet on top of Varget, out of a 28"+ barrel was a standard for years. There are people still shooting it. The reality is that a 20" barrel can outperform that setup with several combinations of new bullets and power that have been released in recent years. Will the longer barrel do even better with those powders and bullets? Sure. But, to say the shorter barrel CAN'T perform at long distance is ludicrous.
How many people actually do things like analyse ballistics vs. follow the pack and just accept statements like "short barrels won't work past 600/800 yards" at face value?
Yes, the longer barrel has a better potential to deliver superior ballistics. But, that doesn't mean people are taking advantage of that potential. A 155 gr. bullet on top of Varget, out of a 28"+ barrel was a standard for years. There are people still shooting it. The reality is that a 20" barrel can outperform that setup with several combinations of new bullets and power that have been released in recent years. Will the longer barrel do even better with those powders and bullets? Sure. But, to say the shorter barrel CAN'T perform at long distance is ludicrous.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Was a great weekend and lots of fun. Some rifles/shooters got a big awakening on what it takes to actually reach out.
Some had great results, others not so much. But that is pretty typical.
I know I put alot of clays back in the boxes that didn't get hit
Fun, fun, fun....
Jerry
Funny...
For some strange reason, every guy who shows up for a long range f class match with a short barreled 308 he gets his butt kicked and we never see him again.
I wonder why.
I'm not suggesting there is some wall at 600 yards where the bullets magically fall to the ground. Even a short barreled 308 will push a bullet to 1000 yards, but to keep them moving above the speed of sound at that distance is a challenge for even a a 30 inch barrel if you don't have the right bullet.
For some strange reason, every guy who shows up for a long range f class match with a short barreled 308 he gets his butt kicked and we never see him again.
I wonder why.
I'm not suggesting there is some wall at 600 yards where the bullets magically fall to the ground. Even a short barreled 308 will push a bullet to 1000 yards, but to keep them moving above the speed of sound at that distance is a challenge for even a a 30 inch barrel if you don't have the right bullet.
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And how many beginners (which is likely what they were if they didn't come back) have gotten their butts kicked with long barrels and never came back? Many new people who show up at matches don't even know the required come ups at each distance. It isn't any kind of stretch for them not to have chosen a proper bullet/load either.
Have the best shooter at your matches shoot a shorty with a proper bullet/load and then tell us if he came in last.
Have the best shooter at your matches shoot a shorty with a proper bullet/load and then tell us if he came in last.
+1. Not sure where you shoot, but in some areas, F-class is a bit of a barrier for many. You have to know a guy to be able to get enough access to practise enough to shoot it.
I found this wrt a 1000 yd world record:
http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek088.html
I don't know how big that X ring is off hand, but suffice to say it is bigger than 2.5 inches.
