F Class with short barrel?

Type is cheap..
I've already done the math.
All you big talkin short barreled 1400 yard skeet shootin 308 shooters out there are more than welcome to come out to the ORA match in August and show us long barrels posers how it's done.
 
BadAsMo said:
Type is cheap..
I've already done the math.
All you big talkin short barreled 1400 yard skeet shootin 308 shooters out there are more than welcome to come out to the ORA match in August and show us long barrels posers how it's done.
Click to expand...

Not seeing any "F-Class" on the ORA calendar. Must be popular if isn't advertised and you're discouraging potential new shoot like the OP from showing up with what they may have.
 
I have a minor tantrum as most of my people do, when we miss the 2.5" gong at 1000 yards. I do not know where all these ideas of shorter barrels only being able to shoot close range come from.!!!


I would think gong would be 29" not 2 & 1/2 "
 
A 1/4 MOA or better needed to hit that 2.5 gong. I couldn't do it (other than luck - like wind blowing my bullet onto the gong LOL ) but I ain't saying it can't be done. In fact a fellow named Tom Sarver shot a 5-shot group at 1000 that measured 1.4 something inches in Light Gun BR
 
didn't a few guys using larue ar's with lothar walther 16" barrels kick butt at some long range comps south of the border? its about ballistics not just barrel length, lots to learn for sure, hopefully you run into guys with some humility to learn from.
 
Agreed, but the guy with the long barrel has access to the same ballistics as the short barrel, and then potentially some more. This of course assumes they are taking advantage of it.

I'm certain there are lots of great shooters out there who could be competitive with a short barrel, I'm just saying that the guys willing to try it are few and far between.
 
kombayotch said:
Not seeing any "F-Class" on the ORA calendar. Must be popular if isn't advertised and you're discouraging potential new shoot like the OP from showing up with what they may have.
Click to expand...

F-Class is all over the ORA calendar and it is very popular, you better have another look. Anyone who is interested should contact the ORA here http://www.ontariorifleassociation.ca/contact

I'm just saying that a guy with a 20 inch barrel on a 308 would have some real large kohoenies to show up at the 1000 yard line actually expecting to hold his ground. Its just not realistic.

Lets just do a little math here regarding barrel length and velocity. Off the top of my head I'm guessing that you get roughly 30 feet per second per inch of barrel length. If you don't believe 30 fps, then google it.

When you put a guy with a 20 inch barrel next to a 30 inch barrel - the guy with the 30 inch barrel is spitting lead at about 300 feet per second faster than the 20 inch guy. That's about 10 percent speed advantage!

Come on now guys, do you really thing that's going to be a fair match or a butt whoopin?

Anyone can get off a lucky shot once in a while and pick off a clay pigeon at 1400 yards with a pot shot after ??? trys, but in F-Class all shots count, you cant take a mulligan if you don't like the shot, the guy scoring you will not give you a pass when you say you pulled that flyer. When the shooting stops its the guy with the most in the middle who wins. To be competitive in this game you need all the help you can get.

When you think about aggregate scoring, a guy can do fairly well at short range and may even win the odd event but the sum of all distances is where the over all winner is determined. If you fall back at long range, you fall back in the aggregate. You need a rifle with enough velocity to hold it's own at the back that shoots bug holes at 300 yards.

A guy can also strategize to excel at short range just to win a short range event and that is what a short fat barrel might do for you, but know going in that you will fall back in the pack when you move back - unless you switch to a second longer barreled rifle for long range.

Remember the V-Bull at 300 yards is only about the size of a bottle cap. To win the 300 yard event you need to hit that bottle cap with at least 8 out of 10 shots and you gotta do it while alternating shots with 2 other guys that might not shoot very fast.

Don't kid yourself, there is no shortage of well funded talent out there and you gotta be ready to bring out your "A" game if you want to win it.

I will add one more point. Remember, even the last place shooter is welcome to come back and try again next time. A guy learns something each time he comes out. You set your own level and you are not required to shoot better than anyone else to attend. Shoot what you have and have a good time doing it. If you want to shoot better, you have to give something up to get it including time with your family, the cost of equipment, shooting supplies and travel. It's not cheap.
 
Last edited:
You really miss the entire point of the thread. Do you actually believe that the new people asking if their 20-24" rifles think they will go out there for the first time with them and beat 30" custom guns, against shooters that do it regularly? Really? For Realz???

Sometimes I have trouble figuring out if you F-Class guys are just so caught up in your equipment race that you can't see anything beyond winning, or if you're actually trying to discourage new people from participating. Every time someone asks if their rifle will work at 1k, the answer amount to" if you don't have a $600 scale and a expensive custom rig, don't even bother. Has the thought ever crossed your mind that maybe these people just want to try it with what they may already have in the cabinet to see if they like it?

You want to google something? Try "JBM ballistics calculator" or "Berger ballistics" calculator. The later was written by a guy named "Bryan Litz", he's a well known ballistics, maybe you've heard of him? Run the ballistics on any of the 155 gr. bullets the TR and some F-Class people run for 1k. Then run the 200-215 gr. bullets at 2500 fps. (because powder like N550 and Reloader 17 will easily get you above that easily in the short barrels). Tell us which one does better with the wind and if the heavy bullet is still supersonic at 1k. I think people trust his ballistics numbers a wee bit more than the numbers you've pulled out of thin air. Particularly since there are a good number of people on here who actually have a short barreled rifle and have actually (by this, I mean in real life) developed these loads for them with heavy bullets. Will it beat the custom long barrel guns also shooting these bullets? No. But, that isn't the point. The point is (pay attention now) that it will allow someone with a shorter barreled rifle to compete in a match, and actually be able to shoot at that distance without their bullets going sideways on them. But hey, why help new people participate with what they already have when you can just laugh at them when they show up and their bullets don't make because they've chosen the wrong load?

I'm well aware that F-Class is shot next to TR, I do get a number of the PMs in the Long Range / Precision Shooting forum from newbies asking where information can be found about F-Class since no one can be bothered to post a schedule for it on here like the other disciples, and the ORA calendar has no match dates that actually say "F-Class" in them. Not needed though right, because it's so intuitive and obvious to a new shooter that F-Class is shot next to TR. Why make things clear for them, new people might actually show up and compete in F-Factory class and maybe even like it and then decide to invest in better equipment.
 
The OP asked if anybody was doing it, and as far as I'm concerned it was answered honestly. Can it be done? Probably. Is a longer barrel better? Based on what everybody is using, yeah. Also an honest answer.

If someone wants to come out with a short, or factory barreled rifle (these often go together) then they can be made to work, to a degree. If you have a load that allows you to stay over Mach 1.2 at 900m then you're off to a good start, just come out and give it a try!

With respect to shooting 75 rounds with 200 gr bullets from a 20" barrel for 3 days in a row, thanks but no thanks.
 
Last edited:
One nice thing about a short barrel would be to make weight limits. You'd have more flexibility - or in my case less hacksaw work - on scopes, stocks and bipods.
 
FTRRookie said:
If someone wants to come out with a short, or factory barreled rifle (these often go together) then they can be made to work, to a degree.
Click to expand...

Isn't there an "F-Factory" class? Get many people shooting it? If not, maybe consider not discouraging people from coming out with barrel lengths that are the most common in factory rifle. Just a thought...
 
I'm sorry, I didn't realize the OP was just looking for someone to blow smoke up his butt. I must have thought he might be looking for an honest answer.

I cant help myself though - this is also the truth as I understand it. There was once a Factory class but it is no more - there were so few guys out there shooting factory rifles and some of the better factory rifles are as good as many target builds the Factory class seems to have merged by caliber with FO and FTR.

Anyone who is interested should contact the ORA here http://www.ontariorifleassociation.ca/contact and while you're at it - please convey your frustration with the clarity of the web site. I'm sure someone wrote it for free and will appreciate the constructive criticism.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom