Fake or Fact - My Nazi Marked Mosin M44
- Thread starter skirsons
- Start date
WW2 Waffenampt codes
WaA214 .......Was only used until 1944!!!
http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerdog/generalstorage/piclinks/WAAE.pdf
WaA214 .......Was only used until 1944!!!
http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerdog/generalstorage/piclinks/WAAE.pdf
Coyote Ugly
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Skirsons, is it the real deal or otherwise? What are your findings to report?
This thread is starting to go way off in another direction talking about M1 Garands.
This M44 is an odd ball and I am certainly interested in making more sense of her.
Here is what I can offer for comparison: I have a Standard modell 1924 that is in late war trim (probably late 1943, early 1944 ish) and none of the major parts has any WaAs except for the right take down disc on the butt stock. My understanding of WaAs and their application in late WW2 was that they skipped this process in order to keep production as high as possible. Dies and their stamps would also become worn with extended use. Also, taking into account that many of the WaA officials that stamped the parts were more than likely drafted by 1945 in some form or another other than stamping parts, this also leads to a possibility in the lack of WaA stamps being applied or stampings being applied by less than qualified people. Considering losses on the Eastern front by 1944 - early 1945, this is understandable. The stampings on your M44, for example, look brand new and fresh by comparison but there could also be the chance that she was stamped with brand new dies.
How a 1945 M44 has them is a bit of a mystery to me as I am sure it is to others. She defies what we thought we knew about the process of WaA stamping in the latter part of WW2 for Germany. Perhaps, just by chance, someone stamped these WaA on post war with the same or similar dies, perhaps not. Perhaps we may never know for sure ? Either way, this particular M44 is not like the rest of the M44s you see out there and that makes her all the more interesting for the collector.
Are you able to snap a close up macro shot of the WaA in detail ? Natural light would be best without flash from the camera if possible. I will compare them with the WaA on three of my rifles.
This M44 is an odd ball and I am certainly interested in making more sense of her.
Here is what I can offer for comparison: I have a Standard modell 1924 that is in late war trim (probably late 1943, early 1944 ish) and none of the major parts has any WaAs except for the right take down disc on the butt stock. My understanding of WaAs and their application in late WW2 was that they skipped this process in order to keep production as high as possible. Dies and their stamps would also become worn with extended use. Also, taking into account that many of the WaA officials that stamped the parts were more than likely drafted by 1945 in some form or another other than stamping parts, this also leads to a possibility in the lack of WaA stamps being applied or stampings being applied by less than qualified people. Considering losses on the Eastern front by 1944 - early 1945, this is understandable. The stampings on your M44, for example, look brand new and fresh by comparison but there could also be the chance that she was stamped with brand new dies.
How a 1945 M44 has them is a bit of a mystery to me as I am sure it is to others. She defies what we thought we knew about the process of WaA stamping in the latter part of WW2 for Germany. Perhaps, just by chance, someone stamped these WaA on post war with the same or similar dies, perhaps not. Perhaps we may never know for sure ? Either way, this particular M44 is not like the rest of the M44s you see out there and that makes her all the more interesting for the collector.
Are you able to snap a close up macro shot of the WaA in detail ? Natural light would be best without flash from the camera if possible. I will compare them with the WaA on three of my rifles.
Another possible explaination is a lot of Germans were captured and used as forced labour, so perhaps the russians forced a few Germans to inspect and sort weapons after their capture and as either a act of defiance or as a joke stamped the crap out of some of the rifles. Captured Germans were not sent home untill the early 1950's if I remember correctly so it is a possibility. We will never really know unless someone remembers or comes clean but I dont think anyone would fake such a inexpensive rifle for profit but who really knows.
I will try in the next few weeks if I end up keeping the rifle and not returning it to Marstar (right now it looks like I may have to). I have a camera that makes pics like that hard to take. I have also noticed that the eagle stamp on the stock wrist is not the same stamp used on the rest of the rifle. It is bigger on the wrist.
That depends who you ask - most ppl have come out one side or the other in the thread. I think that no matter what is said on an internet forum, there will be those who beleive it to be legitimate and those who believe it to not be so.
In the end all that matter is that whoever owns it is happy with the piece and that they are comfortable with what they paid for it.
Even if it had no markings, a nice 1945 M44 can be appreciated for what it is as well.
There are lots of people who will believe just about anything. A large segment of people believe the earth is only 8000 years old and that the Devil put dinosaur bones on the earth to make us question our faith
Still others believe the earth is flat. There's a society called "The Flat Earth Society" - google it, it's worth a chuckle.
Coyote Ugly
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I am sorta baffled by the length of this thread and what the motive is all about by Skirsons?
Is it buyers remorse?
If you're not happy, you don't have to drag it out on the internet. It's between you and the seller (IE:Telephone), not you and the world.
Is it "I got something but I don't know what"?
After a 3 day inspection (not 3 weeks, not 3 years or 3 milleniums), you should have your sh/t together and know if you are keeping it. Either sh/t or get off the pot.
Research before you buy and commit. Use the "Internet" and save us all some grief.
Is it buyers remorse?
If you're not happy, you don't have to drag it out on the internet. It's between you and the seller (IE:Telephone), not you and the world.
Is it "I got something but I don't know what"?
After a 3 day inspection (not 3 weeks, not 3 years or 3 milleniums), you should have your sh/t together and know if you are keeping it. Either sh/t or get off the pot.
Research before you buy and commit. Use the "Internet" and save us all some grief.
