I’ve just started loading cfe.223 for an 18.5 inch .308 Remington, definitely slower powder than the 4064 previously used. It produces considerably less muzzle flash than the 4064.
Faster powders for shorter barrels - say 1680 for a 16 inch 308
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I’ve just started loading cfe.223 for an 18.5 inch .308 Remington, definitely slower powder than the 4064 previously used. It produces considerably less muzzle flash than the 4064.
Code:
Cartridge : .303 British (SAAMI)
Bullet : .312, 174, Hornady FMJBT 3131
Useable Case Capaci: 50.005 grain H2O = 3.247 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.075 inch = 78.11 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4895
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-10.0 72 33.21 2136 1762 32427 5884 93.0 1.488
-09.0 73 33.58 2157 1797 33121 5956 93.4 1.474
-08.0 74 33.95 2177 1831 33832 6028 93.7 1.460
-07.0 74 34.32 2198 1866 34562 6098 94.1 1.446
-06.0 75 34.69 2218 1901 35311 6168 94.5 1.432
-05.0 76 35.06 2239 1937 36078 6238 94.8 1.419
-04.0 77 35.42 2259 1972 36865 6306 95.1 1.405
-03.0 78 35.79 2280 2008 37672 6373 95.4 1.392
-02.0 78 36.16 2300 2044 38498 6440 95.8 1.379
-01.0 79 36.53 2321 2081 39346 6505 96.1 1.366
+00.0 80 36.90 2341 2117 40214 6569 96.3 1.354
+01.0 81 37.27 2361 2154 41103 6633 96.6 1.341
+02.0 82 37.64 2382 2191 42014 6695 96.9 1.329 ! Near Maximum !
+03.0 82 38.01 2402 2229 42948 6756 97.1 1.317 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 83 38.38 2422 2266 43905 6816 97.4 1.305 ! Near Maximum !
+05.0 84 38.75 2442 2304 44884 6875 97.6 1.293 ! Near Maximum !
Code:
Cartridge : .303 British (SAAMI)
Bullet : .310, 123, Hornady FMJ 3147
Useable Case Capaci: 52.769 grain H2O = 3.426 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.910 inch = 73.91 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4895
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-10.0 78 37.98 2506 1715 31915 6114 86.7 1.265
-09.0 79 38.40 2532 1750 32661 6199 87.2 1.253
-08.0 80 38.82 2557 1786 33425 6283 87.7 1.241
-07.0 81 39.25 2583 1822 34206 6366 88.2 1.229
-06.0 82 39.67 2608 1858 35004 6449 88.7 1.217
-05.0 82 40.09 2634 1894 35820 6531 89.2 1.205
-04.0 83 40.51 2659 1931 36655 6613 89.6 1.194
-03.0 84 40.93 2685 1969 37510 6694 90.1 1.182
-02.0 85 41.36 2710 2006 38383 6774 90.5 1.171
-01.0 86 41.78 2736 2044 39277 6853 91.0 1.160
+00.0 87 42.20 2762 2083 40192 6931 91.4 1.149
+01.0 88 42.62 2787 2122 41134 7009 91.8 1.138
+02.0 88 43.04 2813 2161 42102 7085 92.3 1.127 ! Near Maximum !
+03.0 89 43.47 2838 2200 43099 7161 92.7 1.116 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 90 43.89 2864 2240 44123 7235 93.1 1.106 ! Near Maximum !
+05.0 91 44.31 2890 2281 45178 7308 93.4 1.095 ! Near Maximum !
Code:
Cartridge : .303 British (SAAMI)
Bullet : .312, 174, Hornady FMJBT 3131
Useable Case Capaci: 50.005 grain H2O = 3.247 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.075 inch = 78.11 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Accurate 1680
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-10.0 58 27.99 2088 1684 32660 5062 98.9 1.475
-09.0 59 28.30 2106 1713 33352 5109 99.1 1.462
-08.0 59 28.61 2124 1743 34058 5155 99.2 1.449
-07.0 60 28.92 2142 1772 34778 5201 99.4 1.436
-06.0 61 29.23 2160 1802 35512 5245 99.5 1.424
-05.0 61 29.55 2177 1832 36261 5289 99.6 1.411
-04.0 62 29.86 2195 1862 37024 5331 99.7 1.399
-03.0 63 30.17 2213 1892 37801 5372 99.8 1.387
-02.0 63 30.48 2230 1922 38594 5413 99.8 1.375
-01.0 64 30.79 2248 1952 39402 5452 99.9 1.363
+00.0 65 31.10 2265 1982 40226 5490 99.9 1.352
+01.0 65 31.41 2282 2012 41065 5527 100.0 1.340
+02.0 66 31.72 2299 2043 41921 5563 100.0 1.329 ! Near Maximum !
+03.0 67 32.03 2316 2073 42793 5597 100.0 1.318 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 67 32.34 2333 2103 43681 5631 100.0 1.307 ! Near Maximum !
+05.0 68 32.66 2350 2134 44587 5664 100.0 1.297 ! Near Maximum !
Code:
Cartridge : .303 British (SAAMI)
Bullet : .310, 123, Hornady FMJ 3147
Useable Case Capaci: 52.769 grain H2O = 3.426 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.910 inch = 73.91 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Accurate 1680
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-10.0 63 31.86 2475 1673 32362 5492 95.3 1.280
-09.0 63 32.21 2498 1704 33068 5553 95.6 1.268
-08.0 64 32.57 2520 1735 33789 5613 95.9 1.255
-07.0 65 32.92 2543 1766 34527 5673 96.2 1.243
-06.0 66 33.28 2566 1798 35281 5731 96.5 1.232
-05.0 66 33.63 2588 1829 36051 5789 96.7 1.220
-04.0 67 33.98 2611 1861 36839 5846 97.0 1.209
-03.0 68 34.34 2633 1893 37645 5902 97.3 1.197
-02.0 68 34.69 2655 1926 38468 5956 97.5 1.186
-01.0 69 35.05 2678 1958 39309 6010 97.7 1.175
+00.0 70 35.40 2700 1990 40169 6063 98.0 1.165
+01.0 70 35.75 2722 2023 41048 6115 98.2 1.154
+02.0 71 36.11 2744 2056 41946 6165 98.4 1.143 ! Near Maximum !
+03.0 72 36.46 2766 2089 42864 6215 98.5 1.133 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 73 36.82 2787 2122 43802 6263 98.7 1.123 ! Near Maximum !
+05.0 73 37.17 2809 2155 44761 6310 98.9 1.113 ! Near Maximum !
This is all going to be remote fired with the receiver in a vice. Honestly if something goes wrong it will only be a good show, no one will get hurt and im not worried about the rifle.
The only rwason we need a set ptessure in any unit is to run the same pressure in all loads for the test.
To test the claim the h4895 will have more velocity then the 1680 load in the 28" barrel but same load in the 18" the 1680 will have more FPS then the h4895 load
In order to get even close "ball park" chamber pressure with Quickload you need the case capacity of a case fired in your chamber.
Next you need a chronograph reading and then adjust the burn rate in Quickload until it matches your chronograph.
You then have a computer generated guesstimate of your chamber pressure and other data.
Next you need a chronograph reading and then adjust the burn rate in Quickload until it matches your chronograph.
You then have a computer generated guesstimate of your chamber pressure and other data.
Evanguy, I understand what you are saying.
But there is no way of knowing what the actual pressures are, or if the H4895 and 1680 pressures are similar.
The H4895 loads will be running with the same pressures, as will the 1680s. But there is no way of knowing exactly what the pressures really are. Maybe the computer generated numbers will be good enough for discussion purposes.
But there is no way of knowing what the actual pressures are, or if the H4895 and 1680 pressures are similar.
The H4895 loads will be running with the same pressures, as will the 1680s. But there is no way of knowing exactly what the pressures really are. Maybe the computer generated numbers will be good enough for discussion purposes.
Ohh yeah. Its only for the op. So if hes happy and accepts the answer, thats all its for.
And ill have fun doing some loading and shooting. I like this kind of thing
So yes basically only good enough for discussion
but regardless of what the actual pressure is, all those load should be close to even with each other, they used the same software and all use the same numbers but powder, oal and bullet wight, i guess if my lots are different it may throw it off, but if i load to the listed velocity on all 4 loads will they not be close enough to compare to each other?
I can get the info needed to adjust for my powder burn rate and case capacity too so the tables can be adjusted as bigedp51 says. but as long as the same case capacity is used in all estimates, will changing that matter for this test, other then getting us closer to the actual pressure
And ill have fun doing some loading and shooting. I like this kind of thing
So yes basically only good enough for discussion
but regardless of what the actual pressure is, all those load should be close to even with each other, they used the same software and all use the same numbers but powder, oal and bullet wight, i guess if my lots are different it may throw it off, but if i load to the listed velocity on all 4 loads will they not be close enough to compare to each other?
I can get the info needed to adjust for my powder burn rate and case capacity too so the tables can be adjusted as bigedp51 says. but as long as the same case capacity is used in all estimates, will changing that matter for this test, other then getting us closer to the actual pressure
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Evanguy, you do the test with a 303.
I could do it with a 308Win in my 20" HogHunter.
I can load RL-15 and 1680 with Sierra 175 gr MatchKings. 175gr is in the useful weight range for a 308 rifle. I like to hunt with 180s.
Can give me some load data for the 1680, as a starting point? It would save a bit of time.
Since I don't have a way to measure pressure, I would load virgin cases with a spread of charges and stop when I get pressure signs. I will look for the ejector smear on the case head. That happens at around 70,000 psi and will also measure case head expansion.
Then we can compare velocities at similar pressures.
Or, I could do it in a 17" 30-06, but I don't have virgin brass for it, unless I can find a can of Lake City in the bunker.
I could do it with a 308Win in my 20" HogHunter.
I can load RL-15 and 1680 with Sierra 175 gr MatchKings. 175gr is in the useful weight range for a 308 rifle. I like to hunt with 180s.
Can give me some load data for the 1680, as a starting point? It would save a bit of time.
Since I don't have a way to measure pressure, I would load virgin cases with a spread of charges and stop when I get pressure signs. I will look for the ejector smear on the case head. That happens at around 70,000 psi and will also measure case head expansion.
Then we can compare velocities at similar pressures.
Or, I could do it in a 17" 30-06, but I don't have virgin brass for it, unless I can find a can of Lake City in the bunker.
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50,000 psi would be about right for a #4.
Actually we will need to move the steering wheel to the right hand side of the car and use the British base crusher system. The hollow copper crusher was on the very base of the case and allowed the firing pin to pass through the copper crusher. The cases had to be oiled to measure actual pressure and it was expressed as TSI or Tons Square Inch and predated the silly metric system.
When proof pressure testing two oiled proof cartridges were fired and if the Enfield's headspace increased .003 or more the rifle failed proof testing. Now you know why you do not want oil or grease in your chamber that greatly increases bolt thrust. Below from the 1929 British Textbook of Small Arms.
Cartridge Pressure Standards
http://kwk.us/pressures.html
Under the British base crusher standards described below, proof loads ran 30 to 45% above normal. To maximize breech thrust, proof cartridges were oiled before firing.
In Britain, a third set of crusher standards were developed, using a "base" crusher. The crusher was a short, thick tube placed behind a piston at the base of the cartridge, and the firing pin passed through the center. The cartridge case was well oiled before firing, to minimize cling to the chamber walls (if not oiled, the indicated pressures were about 25% lower). To prevent case rupture on set back of the base, the crusher was first deformed in a press to a pressure a bit lower than that expected in firing. The units were generally stated in British long tons per square inch, or tsi. Pressures indicated by this method run 10 to 20% below those indicated by radial crushers. Kynamco in England still rates their production cartridges with this method.
The jungle carbine was reportedly taken out of service because the troops who were issued these didn't like recoil and intense muzzle blast. Looks like folks here are on-track to come-up with a load that could have made the no. 5 gun a decent gun for use in its intended operating theater; i.e. the AA1680 load.
If you use AA1680 in the .303 British the front part of the case will be blasted into a black hole and the back part of the case will destroy our solar system.
You are kind'a missing the fact that lots of good folks out there have pulled apart el cheapo 7.62x39 surplus rounds and dumped the powder load into a 303 Brit case, re-seated the surplus boolit into that ol' timer case, fired the round and said "wow, no issues .. kind'a a nice practice round actually". No death star galactic-ending thing happening at all.
A few uber brave guys have actually taken TWO AK rounds apart and loaded one of the boolits and the powder from, let's say, one and a fifth AK rounds into a 303 case and discovered that still didn't lead to the destruction of the universe. They actually found that it was a nicer shooter than a classic 303 load - and didn't cost them 58 bucks a box.
... Is the World about to end?
A few uber brave guys have actually taken TWO AK rounds apart and loaded one of the boolits and the powder from, let's say, one and a fifth AK rounds into a 303 case and discovered that still didn't lead to the destruction of the universe. They actually found that it was a nicer shooter than a classic 303 load - and didn't cost them 58 bucks a box.
... Is the World about to end?
If you use AA1680 in the .303 British the front part of the case will be blasted into a black hole and the back part of the case will destroy our solar system.
RonAKA. Is that the guy you're thinking of?
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