FBI is switching back to 9mm handguns.

I am wondering why the advances in hollow point technology are not as pronounced in the larger slugs. Have we reached the point of "It's as good as it get's?" Or is it a factor of "#### the 40's and 45's, everyone wants 9 mil, lets focus on that." ?
 
colt45cz75 said:
I am wondering why the advances in hollow point technology are not as pronounced in the larger slugs. Have we reached the point of "It's as good as it get's?" Or is it a factor of "#### the 40's and 45's, everyone wants 9 mil, lets focus on that." ?
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Probably no one spends the time on .45 because the whole point of making better hollow points is being able to use a smaller round and get more capacity.

That also isnt to say .40 doesnt do great damage than 9mm with the same sophistication of bullet, but they find that 9mm is easier for everyone to shoot, lets you carry more ammo and does enough damage to be effective. No need for overkill (pun intended) if 9mm does the job
 
You're probably right, but I think if someone was shooting at me and I had a chance to shoot back, I'd probably want all the overkill I could get.
 
colt45cz75 said:
You're probably right, but I think if someone was shooting at me and I had a chance to shoot back, I'd probably want all the overkill I could get.
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Know your target and what's beyond it. over kill may not always be your best friend. Every round you fire has a lawyer attached to it.

I can understand why FBI is moving back to the 9mm. Speer Golddot 9mm +P is capable of expanding to a 50cal and 45 does about the same.

In terms of Army moving away from 9mm. I'm not so sure. I really doubt US will switch. How many times did army look at replacing M4 and end up scrap the whole competition and keeping M4? The same can be said for the JCP.
Sure the M9 will have slide/ frame cracking, when you just purchased 1/4 million of them within last 10 years, it doesn't seem justifiable to replace it immediately.
 
WRH said:
And the U.S. Army is considering going away from the 9 mm.

http://bearingarms.com/army-wants-new-handgun-way-can-now/
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That article is full of incorrect garbage. Not to mention the US Army "wants a new handgun". The FBI, is getting new handguns in 9mm. The blind following for .45 is ignorant. Even with improved performance ammunition you're still capacity handicapped and suffer from increased recoil.

Stephen1546 said:
Exactly. If you can use modern expanding ammo, 9mm will get the job done just as well as 45. If you are stuck with FMJ, all you can do is try to make a bigger hole.
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Check the stats on one shot stops and average rounds fired in cases of terminal performance. The average is 3 rounds regardless of calibre(between the two being discussed). Shot placement trumps all. Ever wonder why nearly all SF units use 9mm pistols and almost none use .45ACP pistols?? More rounds means more fight.
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power

handofzeus said:
.357 colt troopers all around. There, start handing them out again,problem solved. Everybody seems to need to be the one that invents the better wheel. Yes, I'm old and crusty.
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You're also about 50 years behind the technology and training curve.. Revolvers are a stupid stupid idea, they became obsolete about 75 years ago.

heavenIsAlie said:
Probably no one spends the time on .45 because the whole point of making better hollow points is being able to use a smaller round and get more capacity.

That also isnt to say .40 doesnt do great damage than 9mm with the same sophistication of bullet, but they find that 9mm is easier for everyone to shoot, lets you carry more ammo and does enough damage to be effective. No need for overkill (pun intended) if 9mm does the job
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Here's a smart guy:wave:

TDC
 
The part of the FBI's reasoning that folks here appear to be skimming over is that 70 to 80% of shots fired by officers miss the intended target. Plus they find with the lower recoil of the 9MM the accuracy rate is higher. There position here is that a hit with a smaller calibre is better over a miss with a larger. The high magazine capacity of a 9 mm is desirable as with the miss rate still being high in these circumstances the more lead the officer puts in the air heading in the general direction of the target supposedly the better the chance the target will be hit. The FBI's goal appears to be to disable the bad guy. The Armies goal I would imagine is to kill him. Two different goals.
 
mrgoat said:
The part of the FBI's reasoning that folks here appear to be skimming over is that 70 to 80% of shots fired by officers miss the intended target. Plus they find with the lower recoil of the 9MM the accuracy rate is higher. There position here is that a hit with a smaller calibre is better over a miss with a larger. The high magazine capacity of a 9 mm is desirable as with the miss rate still being high in these circumstances the more lead the officer puts in the air heading in the general direction of the target supposedly the better the chance the target will be hit. The FBI's goal appears to be to disable the bad guy. The Armies goal I would imagine is to kill him. Two different goals.
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Poor performance is a training issue, not a calibre issue. It is easier to make subsequent follow up shots with a calibre with less recoil and more rounds is never a bad thing.. Incapacitation is just as effective as killing, the military is looking for either. A wounded soldier(crazy terrorist types notwithstanding) takes a lot more effort to look after than a dead one. Incapacitated means unable to fight, that's the same as being dead. Pistols for the majority of the mil community are defensive tools not offensive, that's why they issue rifles.

TDC
 
mrgoat said:
The FBI's goal appears to be to disable the bad guy. The Armies goal I would imagine is to kill him. Two different goals.
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This is exactly why the us army switched from pathetic 30-06 to weak and mild .308 right to all mighty 5.56. Instant kill ammo, no compromise.

By the way, last time I've checked, Hague Convention still stands - an army cannot use expanding ammo. So you are looking at ball 9mm vs ball 45acp. You can dig up several football fields with multiple rocket launchers, but 9mm hollow point is totally illegal.
 
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