FBI Report on choosing Handgun Caliber
- Thread starter Broker
- Start date
- Location
- Ontario, Kanada
God not this crap again... 9mm FTW
An American hunter once asked his African guide why he carried such a large double rifle in .600 Nitro Express when hunting lions, most of the hunters used .30 cal rifles. The answer was "because they don't make a .700" and at close range one shot one instant kill is needed. It's not crap it's lessons learned, so you don't have too the hard way. Talk to veterans, they survived by knowing stuff....
Actually, he said "of those that will penetrate, the edge is always with the bigger bullet." This implies that incapacitation is a factor of both, penetration and the size of the permanent wound channel. Thus, a smaller diameter bullet could be more lethal than its larger counterpart if it offered significantly greater penetration.
The article also dispels the myths of "knockdown power" and "hydrostatic shock" in the context of handgun ballistics. Thus, energy transfer is not a reliable method of calculating a caliber's lethality. You see a lot of self-appointed internet experts dump on the .40S&W round (which was eventually adopted by the FBI) as a "solution in search of a problem" and pointing out that you can get similar energy transfer figures from the 9mm +P round. This is a fallacious argument, as .40 S&W offers similar penetration but with greater wound channel diameter, which means that it ultimately damages more body tissue than 9mm +P.
Where does it say "FBI"? By the way that article sounds its most likely some old fart's rant. Where is hard data? Author's own research? Its full of references to somebody's else legwork collecting data. Author kept on repeating the same idea on and on and on in different variations. You know, I wonder why I even bother commenting - article didn't worth my royal 10 minutes reading it.
- Location
- East ontario
all that crap is why we have the 40S&W now.
I have. I wonder if anybody else did. Like I said - I am questioning the source. There are better more informative articles on the subject, this one is very subjective and blatant in statements, no hard facts at all. Just an opinion of one FBI agent Urey Patrick, not an official FBI view on a subject.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Even if what you claim were true, few LEO agencies have access to the volume of gun fighting data that has been accumulated by the FBI. For example, more gun fighting falicies were disproven as a result of the infamous "Miami Shootout" than many others due to the painstaking study of the results of that action. Take from it what you will, but I have studied the issue at some length over many years, and have concluded that the material in this document is factually accurate.
If the "other" sources you refer to are Marshall and Sanow, you might dig a little deeper and discover that there are some problems with their findings, not as a result of dishonesty, but due to the small sample size from which they based their findings . A better source of information available to the public is Fackler's Ballistic Wound Review, "Gunshot Wounds" by Legard, the findings of the Thompson Legard Comittee, and articles written on the subject by Jeff Cooper. Marshall and Sanow's findings should not be rejected out of hand, just that they should viewed in the broader context of possibilities rather than probabilities.
Well, bullet diameter will effect penetration. Hence the Feebies move towards a compromise, the 10mm. Larger diameter then the 9mm for better stopping power (whatever that is this week), but smaller then the 45 for better penetration for a given bullet weight. Once they had the 10, tunred out it was a little tougher to control then they figured. Had to tame it down some, hence the 40 S&W (Short & Weak, lol). FWIW - dan
For an organisation, you need what you can train the smallest recruits to shoot well.
The FBI decided that non-light 10 mm Auto round was the ideal round, based on "Science" and so on.
They then decided that it wasn't. So listen to the FBI.
The FBI decided that non-light 10 mm Auto round was the ideal round, based on "Science" and so on.
They then decided that it wasn't. So listen to the FBI.
Boomer, I am not arguing author's statements, they are indeed accurate. I just found that article being more of a reprinting of known facts rather than research. Here is another article, http://demigodllc.com/~zak/firearms/fbi-pistol.php where you can find reference to Urey's article but also includes hard ballistics data. I found it much more informative and helpful in making choice on chambering. Urey essentially said everything he knows in one sentence, the rest of 2 pages is stating the same thing in different words, I don't like it thats all.
Interesting that clothing in front of the gelatin increases wound volume about 40% of the time.
