Federal 209A primer vrs Cheddite 209 primer

Have no personal experience with them but a few Club members use them and found no noticeable difference over a chrony with Sporting Clays loads (7/8 & 1 ounce)
They are however, all under the impression that they are somewhat harder than NA primers.
 
In the Ballistic Products Inc manual and I believe their multi hull/primer is Cheddite it says..........the following primers produce inconsequential differences Nobel Sport 209,Winchester 209,CCI209,+ Cheddite 209.No mention of Federal although one could call them and ask.
 
cant_rope_the_wind01 said:
so what's the difference between a federal 209A primer and a cheddite 209 primer
is the federal a hotter primer thus creating higher pressures???
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Yes actually the hottest and should not be interchanged. One example
Some comparisons

Shotshell Primer Comparison

Winchester 12-Ga. 2-3/4" AA Hull
17.0 Grains IMR 700-X Powder
Greenduster GT 9210-12 Wad
One Ounce No. 8 Lead Shot

Primer and Lot Chamber Pressure p.s.i.
Fed. 209A 10,860 (EV 600)
CCI-209M 10,460 (EV 1300)
Win. 209 10,140 (EV 400)
Rem. 209STS 9,740 (EV 2200)
FIO-616 9,690 (EV 1600)
CCI-209 9,650 (EV 2300)
Rem. 209P 8,810 (EV 2200)
Fed. 209 9,070 (EV 900)
Cheddite 209 9,270 (EV 2000
 
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3macs1 said:
Yes actually the hottest and should not be interchanged. One example
Some comparisons

Shotshell Primer Comparison

Winchester 12-Ga. 2-3/4" AA Hull
17.0 Grains IMR 700-X Powder
Greenduster GT 9210-12 Wad
One Ounce No. 8 Lead Shot

Primer and Lot Chamber Pressure p.s.i.
Fed. 209A 10,860 (EV 600)
CCI-209M 10,460 (EV 1300)
Win. 209 10,140 (EV 400)
Rem. 209STS 9,740 (EV 2200)
FIO-616 9,690 (EV 1600)
CCI-209 9,650 (EV 2300)
Rem. 209P 8,810 (EV 2200)
Fed. 209 9,070 (EV 900)
Cheddite 209 9,270 (EV 2000
Click to expand...

Thanks 3macs that's what I was thinking the fed 209A created more pressure due to being a hotter primer
kinda like a small rifle vs large rifle vs magnum rifle primers
 
I find the 209A ignites magnum loads better and also ignites better in the cold. I'd have no problem substituting the 209A when shooting in the winter. It make magnum loads burn cleaner. I use it with a heavy dose of Longshot for my Lyman slugs.
 
sharp shooter said:
I find the 209A ignites magnum loads better and also ignites better in the cold. I'd have no problem substituting the 209A when shooting in the winter. It make magnum loads burn cleaner. I use it with a heavy dose of Longshot for my Lyman slugs.
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??? Playing with untested shotgun loads is a totally different game IMHO than rifle and only a matter of time and combination before a undesirable incident occurs
All you have going for you is luck nothing more
But hey it is your hands and face so to each their own
Cheers
 
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Pressure, velocity and safety issues aside, there are differences between primers.

  • A Cheddite shotgun primer has the thinnest cup of all 209 primers and if the tip of the firing pin is rough, protrudes too far, or if the hammer spring is too stiff, they will pierce and the gasses will damage the tip of your firing pin.
  • A Cheddite shotgun primer is larger in diameter than a NA 209 primer.

Therefore: If you have been using a Fed 209A and you substitute a Cheddite primer, it will be a bit hard to seat, and if you decide to go back to using a Fed 209A, it will seat easy, and may not seal as well as it should.

Personally, unless you have some compelling reason you'd like to substitute a Cheddite primer, I'd not do it. If I did do it, I'd examine the fired primers and if there was any piercing, I'd discontinue their use, of have a gunsmith work on the firing pin and hammer spring until they did not pierce.

IIRC: Cheddite primers were preferred by the muzzle loading crowd at one time, they sealed a bit better (inline muzzle loaders) and their brisance was a good match for some brands of BP or substitute.

I have some data for my 16 that calls for a Cheddite, in Cheddite hulls, and I don't like working with either. I've had my hammer spring lightened, firing pin shortened and the tip of the firing pin ground flat. I still pierce the odd primer. I don't ever want to use another Cheddite primer, and I don't want to reload another Cheddite hull. YMMV

Nitro
 
I think Cheddite now supplies primers to correct NA diameter, however, the primer piercing issue seems to be ongoing. Swapping primers in shotgun loads is a potentially dangerous game because of the substantial contribution the primer makes to firing pressure. If you look at the load tables (eg Hodgdon website), you can see the substantial variation. Arbitrarily substituting primers could do nasty things to someones prized over-and-under.
 
Don't forget, shotgun pressures are far far lower than rifle pressures and the margin of error much less. Compare the thickness of a shotgun barrel where your hand grips the forend to the thickness of a rifle barrel. Blindly interchanging shotshell components in shotshell reloading can easily lead to nasty surprises.
 
The Federal 209A primer is a much hotter primer than the Cheddite 209 primer .... actually the Federal 209A is one of the hottest shot-shell primers out there ....

If you substitute the Federal for the Cheddite ... and all other components are the same .... your pressure will go up ... it is just a matter of how much ... and that depends on your load ...

Here is an article on shot-shell primer substitution ...

http://www.armbrust.acf2.org/primersubs.htm

In the example used in the article ... the pressure went up by 1500 psi ... and just by substituting a Federal 209A primer for a Cheddite 209 primer ...
 
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When I first started loading for shotgun, I called Hodgdon and asked them about swapping two specific primers. The gentleman I spoke with wanted specifics on the load, such as hull, powder type and charge weight, wad, shot weight.

He was able to tell me whether or not what I wanted to do was safe, and why.

Cheddite primers are cheap and available, which is why people use them. I've had piercing problems in the past with them, one of my current guns has been "fixed" so it doesn't pierce them anymore, the other gun never did.

Shotgun reloading can be tricky stuff, even crimp depth can affect pressure.

I know that one of the Federal primers is considerably stronger than the rest, it might well be the 209A. It's not something I'd be comfortable substituting for something else. The loads that specifically call for it were designed to work with it.

My suggestion would be to call the experts at the powder company and talk to them about what you want to do. They have tech support people for a reason, and this is part of it.

Be careful, especially with internet advice. Any fool can operate a keyboard.
 
to make things more complicated, Cheddite produces 3 types of shotgun primers:
- CX2000 for 12ga
- CX1000 for 28, 24, 20, 16ga
- CX50 for 410
 
never substitute anything in a shot shell recipe there's no pressure indicators in shot shell till its too late. only thing I have found is card wads can be substituted in straight walled hulls because of gas leakage they give lower pressures I still would not do it with a very high pressure load.
 
legi0n said:
to make things more complicated, Cheddite produces 3 types of shotgun primers:
- CX2000 for 12ga
- CX1000 for 28, 24, 20, 16ga
- CX50 for 410
Click to expand...

Now that's interesting.. I didn't know that until you mentioned it. I just checked mine, which were obtained through a club powder order, they're all CX2000.

Challenger uses Cheddite primers, as do some others. The next time I'm at the gun club I'll check some of our Challenger 20 gauge ammo to see which primer is in them. From the pic on the Cheddite web site below, it looks like only the CX2000 has the copper coloured cup.

h ttps://www.chedditeitaly.it/inneschi/?lang=en

Remove space in h ttps to enable the link.

I've used them for years with some piercing problems as I mentioned earlier, now resolved.
There used to be quite a price difference between Cheddite and Winchester, for example. Not so much in recent years.
I'd advise anyone thinking of using Cheddite for reloading to try a couple hundred before you go whole hog and buy thousands of them.
If they pierce in your gun, you can either try to correct the problem or simply use another primer. Most recipes don't specify Cheddite to begin with, though I have seen some that do.
 
Very rare if at all the 1000's even came to canada , they show up state side from time to time and if they did they are useless to most since they are UK metric specs and only will be ok in primed hulls from like ballastic products
Yes there are three types but also remember there is north american inch dimension 2000 and UK metric ones ( yes I got screwed years ago and have both here one black and one red flash hole ) so at least four types IMHO. Not sure if they even make the other two in inch tolerances but they may
Cheers
Might be the metric one not sure. Are they red now flash holes when you buy them

C0xg2c1.jpg
 
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Federal 209A is the hottest primer, it will give good clean complete burns in the cold months when lesser primers will fail. 209A and Steel powder is what you need for migratory birds,
for my small game loads I use any other primer recommended for the load.
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