Federal gun grab?

Question on RCMP FRT, website "http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/online_en-ligne/frt-traf-eng.htm"
Why do you have to create a government account to see this public information? How can we be good little conformist if they keep this information so concealed?
 
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The RCMP need to be taken out of the classification business as they are a political (anti gun) lobby in and of themselves. All too often the police (Rcmp or otherwise, at least their "leadership" (not so much the front line beat cops) ask for a law to be made and the political officials do it "to support the law enforcement community", such as MLAs giving the Halifax Chief of police the Body Armor Control Act that he ASKED for (nova scotia) or the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police going on about how THEY want the long gun registry.

also, having just read this article
http://globalnews.ca/news/1038496/in-briefing-note-to-blaney-hints-of-tighter-gun-control/
it looks like the RCMP are the POLITICAL force behind all of this reclassification stuff.........
a *political lobby group*





Why is law enforcement so involved in law and policy making?

We need an impartial non political body (yet educated and knowledgeable on firearms and their use by mainstream Canadians) to classify firearms
We need an impartial non political body (yet educated and knowledgeable on firearms and their use by mainstream Canadians) to advise the government on its gun policy making


Given that the Firearms Act was an emotional response to a tragedy that millions of lawful firearms owners have nothing to do with and its utter subjectively "reasonable belief" or "secured" in combination with is application by arguably anti-gun and politically motivated RCMP I feel that the Firearms Act itself needs to be strongly amended whilst cutting the RCMP out of the firearms regulation and classification scheme entirely.
 
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redleafjumper said:
Canada’s National Firearms is consulting legal counsel on the Swiss Arms Seizures and we believe that there are grounds for a Firearms Act Challenge arising from S. 74 of the Firearms Act. In our assessment we need the owner(s) of one of the affected restricted versions of the Swiss Arms Carbine, as well as owners of the newly prohibited non-restricted versions to contact our lead counsel on the matter who will be Solomon Friedman of Edelson Clifford D'Angelo Friedman LLP. There are many questions that will arise from this decision of the Minister of Public Safety to re-classify this firearm, not the least of which is how owners of the non-restricted version will be contacted, given that there should no longer be a record of their ownership in the registration system.

Here is part of the FRT: Canadian Law Comments - in the case of this firearm, it has been determined that the component; commonly referred to as the upper receiver assembly, into which the barrel is mounted and which contains the breech mechanism and upon which the Manufacturer's identification, Model identification, Proof information, and the full serial number is marked, is the Receiver/Frame for the purposes stated within the Firearms Act and the Criminal Code of Canada.

- Company documentation and advertising linking this Model to the SIG Arms SG540 rifle design resulted in an initial "Non-Restricted" classification of this Model.
- In 2013/2014, a thorough inspection of the Classic Green family of firearms (which included this Model) has determined this Model to be a variant of the firearm commonly known as the SG-550 rifle or SG-551 Carbine and is therefore prohibited under Part 1, para. 83 of the Prohibited Firearm Regulations in Part III of Section 84 of
the Criminal Code of Canada.

Other Markings - "CH 016" may be marked on the left side of the upper receiver/frame, which may denote a Swiss Government manufacturing licensing requirement.

Cross-References
Firearm Ref No. Make Model Manufacturer Type Action
82651 SIG SG540 Manufacture de Machines du Haut Rhin
(MANURHIN)
Rifle Full Automatic
82695 SIG SG540 Manufacture de Machines du Haut Rhin
(MANURHIN)
Rifle Converted Automatic
118907 Swiss Arms Blue Star Swiss Arms Rifle Semi-Automatic
119484 Swiss Arms Swiss Arms Edition Swiss Arms Rifle Semi-Automatic
119485 Swiss Arms Red Devil Swiss Arms Rifle Semi-Automatic
119587 Swiss Arms Black Special Swiss Arms Rifle Semi-Automatic
119588 Swiss Arms Heavy Metal Swiss Arms Rifle Semi-Automatic
124216 Swiss Arms Classic Green Carbine Swiss Arms Rifle Semi-Automatic
124218 Swiss Arms Classic Green CQB Swiss Arms Rifle Semi-Automatic
Also Known As/Product Code
Classic-Green
PE 90
PE90
Year Dates No Data Retrieved

Importer
FN Sports
Shooting Edge
Click to expand...

So we have two separate challenges started? Why not work together, pool our resources and have one challenge?
 
Also, telling gun owners they have no compensation and to ask the DEALER for a refund is still theft- the dealer is being robbed, punished for daring to import a gun that the RCMP could one day decide to prohibit after they deemed it non restricted or restricted. I guess you importers need to learn your lesson and only import large wooden stocked guns with moose- killing power in a "safe" mechanism like bolt action, because, you know, they were never ever "made for war"........ and are utterly harmless (sarcasm)

omg my head hurts


so much wrong with what is going on here
 
Kane63 said:
Any benefit to trying to bring the NRA up here and turning it into a shared USA/Canada organization?
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I don't think that is a good idea at all. If anything were to galvanize public opinion and motivate gun-grabbers, it would be this. Far too much baggage with the NRA, not to mention extremism. We don't need Americans to do it for us in an American way. We need to do it ourselves.
 
ALSO if a new batch of guns come in that are classified as "non restricted" and this specific "batch" is deemed prohibited why say ALL of that type of gun are prohibited when it is simply that one new batch? With logic like this the RCMP will eventually find a way to ban every single firearm in Canada for one reason or another
 
Grumpy Wolverine said:
While I love the NRA, I think we have to follow some of their ideas but we have to tone down others. Preaching to the average Canadian that we all need CCW and Defensive firearms (as much as most of us agree we do) isn't going to gain us any support. While we are a country built with a gun culture, the culture is different from our brethren south of the border.
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I agree, I don't think going "Full NRA" would work very well here because it would be too drastic for most people. Granted, they have tons of cash but they are also very organized. I think having them here and adopting some of their tactics could really shake things up.
 
redleafjumper said:
Canada’s National Firearms is consulting legal counsel on the Swiss Arms Seizures and we believe that there are grounds for a Firearms Act Challenge arising from S. 74 of the Firearms Act. In our assessment we need the owner(s) of one of the affected restricted versions of the Swiss Arms Carbine, as well as owners of the newly prohibited non-restricted versions to contact our lead counsel on the matter who will be Solomon Friedman of Edelson Clifford D'Angelo Friedman LLP. There are many questions that will arise from this decision of the Minister of Public Safety to re-classify this firearm, not the least of which is how owners of the non-restricted version will be contacted, given that there should no longer be a record of their ownership in the registration system.

Here is part of the FRT: Canadian Law Comments - in the case of this firearm, it has been determined that the component; commonly referred to as the upper receiver assembly, into which the barrel is mounted and which contains the breech mechanism and upon which the Manufacturer's identification, Model identification, Proof information, and the full serial number is marked, is the Receiver/Frame for the purposes stated within the Firearms Act and the Criminal Code of Canada.

- Company documentation and advertising linking this Model to the SIG Arms SG540 rifle design resulted in an initial "Non-Restricted" classification of this Model.
- In 2013/2014, a thorough inspection of the Classic Green family of firearms (which included this Model) has determined this Model to be a variant of the firearm commonly known as the SG-550 rifle or SG-551 Carbine and is therefore prohibited under Part 1, para. 83 of the Prohibited Firearm Regulations in Part III of Section 84 of
the Criminal Code of Canada.

Other Markings - "CH 016" may be marked on the left side of the upper receiver/frame, which may denote a Swiss Government manufacturing licensing requirement.

Cross-References
Firearm Ref No. Make Model Manufacturer Type Action
82651 SIG SG540 Manufacture de Machines du Haut Rhin
(MANURHIN)
Rifle Full Automatic
82695 SIG SG540 Manufacture de Machines du Haut Rhin
(MANURHIN)
Rifle Converted Automatic
118907 Swiss Arms Blue Star Swiss Arms Rifle Semi-Automatic
119484 Swiss Arms Swiss Arms Edition Swiss Arms Rifle Semi-Automatic
119485 Swiss Arms Red Devil Swiss Arms Rifle Semi-Automatic
119587 Swiss Arms Black Special Swiss Arms Rifle Semi-Automatic
119588 Swiss Arms Heavy Metal Swiss Arms Rifle Semi-Automatic
124216 Swiss Arms Classic Green Carbine Swiss Arms Rifle Semi-Automatic
124218 Swiss Arms Classic Green CQB Swiss Arms Rifle Semi-Automatic
Also Known As/Product Code
Classic-Green
PE 90
PE90
Year Dates No Data Retrieved

Importer
FN Sports
Shooting Edge
Click to expand...

A little late to the starting gate aren't you? Would make more sense to get in behind Ed and lend your resources to him and fight as a unified front.?
 
bcbravo2zero said:
I don't think that is a good idea at all. If anything were to galvanize public opinion and motivate gun-grabbers, it would be this. Far too much baggage with the NRA, not to mention extremism. We don't need Americans to do it for us in an American way. We need to do it ourselves.
Click to expand...

I agree with your sentiment. I am a fairly new/younger gun owner so I don't really know all the details about the past yet, but what have we been able to accomplish in the last ~20 years?
 
I contacted my MP, a liberal sadly but i voiced my opinion. Also emailed CSSA and asked what they're going to do! Emailed Gallant below is what i wrote.

Dear Cheryl Gallant, I am a legal gun owner who has supported you in the past but what your government is doing to legal gun owners is disgusting. The attack on legal gun owners has to stop. Those Swiss arm rifles have been legal for last 13 years and the owners who dished out over 3 grand to own one, is not the issue.

Why keep attacking us? Are we the ones doing drive by and armed robberies? Are we scaring you because we have rifles? So why is the government hell bend of prohibition of firearms and reclassification of private property and to make it worse no money for our property!

As a law abiding gun owner and federal law enforcement officer, I'm out raged by this. This current attempt doesn't stop illegal guns coming over border or anything. This is a blatant attack on our firearm rights. I will not be voting for the conservative party if this is how we are viewed. I ask you to reverse this and take power away from RCMP.

This happened before in history and it was the German government under Hitler who did same thing. Embrace firearm rights and allow us to have self defense rights. Go after illegal guns and make punishment harsh for illegal guns or used in commission of robbery.

I hope to see change from this party as I know the views of what liberals and NDP will do to me. Again stop making legal gun owners criminal over night for nothing.

Sincerely,

Keep up the pressure, i wish NRA was in Canada!
 
Mr Wolverine said:
Federal gun grab might sound sensational and alarmist but it is time that Canadian Gun owners woke up to the fact that this is indeed happening. We are at the mercy of the bureaucrats who appear to be running the Government. Elections may change Government but the behind the scenes bureaucracy remains unchanged and they work away to their own agenda.

Confiscation due to reclassification is a FACT OF LIFE it is happening. I hate to say it but the RCMP Forensic Lab have to work within the frame work of law, their hands are tied. When a “new” firearm is imported into Canada the lab usually classifies it, they may (Should?) examine a sample, research the manufacturer and render a decision. Their technical report is viewed against our current firearm laws, regulations and court decisions and they issue an FRT as a result. The problem arises when after several years and many thousands of imports the lab re-examines a firearm and issues a revised decision that is different to their original one.

The problem is that the way our laws are written, a reclassification will often result in prohibition. It would be reasonable to expect compensation from the Government, after all the importer received approval from the Government in the first place by the issue of an FRT and classification.

Problem areas as I see it are largely due to our very poorly worded laws and the different ways a legal interpretation can be made. Simply, how a question is worded to a lawyer can result in two different answers, for example: Is there any way we can stop John from doing this? Will result in a different answer to: Is there any way we can let John do this?

Variants, what constitutes a variant of a restricted or prohibited firearm? Depends who you ask!

If a firearm can be converted to fully automatic with “relative ease and time” (Not the exact wording) it is deemed prohibited. This is a terrible court decision, just about any firearm can be converted to full automatic. Most semi auto firearms with a reciprocating charging handle can be converted to full automatic with a piece of string! Where will this end up?

Transparency and accountability is almost nonexistent between the RCMP Forensic laboratory, the Government and the firearms community.

Time for a change in our Shooting Organisations if we want to reverse this trend, while we remain fragmented we are seen as weak! I served as Manitoba President of the NFA for ten years, I worked as a Director with the CSSA for five years, I know Jim Newman who left the CSSA and formed another organisation, based on my experience it is time for these organisations to stop fighting among themselves and unite into one strong organisation. We have a separate Canadian Dealer association, the CSAAA, time for them to re-organise and present a powerful, determined, united front to the Government.
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I have said this before, I 110% agree.
Ivor
 
CanadianReich said:
The RCMP need to be taken out of the classification business as they are a political (anti gun) lobby in and of themselves. All too often the police (Rcmp or otherwise, at least their "leadership" (not so much the front line beat cops) ask for a law to be made and the political officials do it "to support the law enforcement community", such as MLAs giving the Halifax Chief of police the Body Armor Control Act that he ASKED for (nova scotia) or the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police going on about how THEY want the long gun registry.
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Well said, we might as well have the liberals doing the classifications. I wish the NRA would join our cause on this one
 
Kane63 said:
I agree with your sentiment. I am a fairly new/younger gun owner so I don't really know all the details about the past yet, but what have we been able to accomplish in the last ~20 years?
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I'm no expert on this, but it seems that we have not accomplished enough. (Although victories like abolishing the non-res registry is one that comes to mind.)
Nevertheless, I don't think importation of the NRA is the answer. However, I agree that Canadian org's could learn a thing or two from them. They should certainly be consulted.

BTW, the NRA's lobbying activities are inexorably linked to the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution. There is no such legal/constitutional framework here in Canada. (And please, I have no interest in debating the extremely tenuous, and already dead, BNAct argument.)
 
If you read the law the only way they can reclassify something is if they have an order in counsel which they don't. So the question is how is what they're doing legal?
 
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