Federal gun grab?

According to Statistics Canada and the RCMP, approximately 20 times more people are killed in motor vehicle accidents in Canada than firearms. Of all the violent crime in Canada, knives account for a tad more deaths than firearms. As for firearm related deaths, over 70% are suicide. The number of injuries from vehicles compared to firearms? Closer to a 1000 times!!
Where am I going with this? Why are we not banning motor vehicles? How many more people by percentage ownership are killed when operating a motorcycle as opposed to a 4 wheel vehicle? Why do some people collect motor vehicles? Some of these vehicles are excessively over powered etc, etc. No practical reason to have one, correct? Sound familiar?
Personally I believe the best way to argue this topic is to use the governments own statistics. It's all on the web. Whenever you come across an anti-gunner, don't argue; educate yourself and stick to the facts. I was surprised how many people actually gave a second thought when asked (for example) why do we need cars that exceed 120kph. Any vehicle that does should be banned and confiscated without compensation. I typically get the old "well that's just stupid" reaction. And I agree with them.
"Guns were initally designed to kill people" comes next. A lot of things were initially designed to kill people. The fork and knife you use to eat dinner with for example. Lets ban those. How about clubs? I suppose baseball bats should be banned. Martial arts. We are training people the ability to kill each other with either weapons or our hands. Lets ban that too. Don't even get me started on nuclear energy (which is the safest of all sources of power second to wind). Yes, even solar power is more environmentally dangerous and has killed more people than nuclear. Hmmm, lets ban solar power; and coal; and oil. Anyone caught with a tank full of gas is a criminal; arrest him Danno!
I'll bet we have more people dying from choking on fast food than firearms!!! Hot dogs be damned.
There is clearly a political motivation to this prohibition movement that is not based on what is best for us citizens.
Stay calm when discussing this issue with the uneducated. All the firearm owners I know are all willing to take the time to educate those who want to learn. We are patient with them at the range; take our time and explain the paramount importance of safety etc. It's no different when speaking with the closed minded. Let them rant and toss in the odd fact based on an actual study. If at possible, get them to a range. I have yet to have anyone leave without having at the very least, a new found perspective on the sport.
 
I sent this letter to my MP and Stephen Harper. I composed it with some of your quotes and ideas, so feel free to use.

Dear MP,

This morning a news alert at 10 AM February 27th came across my desk. There is confirmation that all the Swiss Arms rifles, both non-restricted and restricted have been re-classified as Prohibited by the RCMP. The FRTs have all been changed this morning.

If anything, the CPC should pay very close attention to this. This can be a very negative thing for us. If this is all true, and now all non-restricted Swiss Arms rifles are now prohibited, there will be over a thousand prohibited “baby killing machines” out there. And without the Long Gun Registry, there is no way to find them. The CPC will have egg on their face for eliminating the LGR and taking away "valuable tools" police have been crying about to keep prohibited firearms out of public hands. When the press gets a hold of this, headlines will read:

"Conservatives allow a thousand assault rifles to disappear"

The predominantly liberal media will have a field day with this. The Conservatives who always claim to be "tough on crime" will look like a bunch of hypocrites.

The thought of Liberals like Justin running our country is very scary. What is even scarier is the way the CPC has become a Trojan Horse for Liberal values when it comes to gun control. It’s about time the party stood up for democracy and citizens’ rights. If this is something you are no longer capable of, due to your Liberal beliefs, then there is little value in voting for or donating to your party.

Let’s all just vote for Justin, and send our guns in now, as it will save us all a lot of time.

My future donations earmarked for the Conservative Party of Canada will now being re-routed to a Class Action Lawsuit for Swiss Arms Reclassification Loss and a Reclassification Challenge, or to the National Firearms Association and important court battles that endeavor to protect the rights of Canadian Citizens.

The RCMP does not run this country, WE do, as in Canadian Citizens, through our ELECTED officials. At least that’s how it’s done in non-police states.

I will re-route my donations to CPC after I hear some very strong language from our leadership claiming the RCMP’s actions will be investigated todays actions and for High River gun grab.
 
This is not about the Swiss specifically, but it follows the gun grab. It's a documentary about the seizures in Highriver. Although the CPC didn’t mandate the search and seizure, they didn’t stop it. The long gun registry was a waste of money and scrapping it was a brilliant way for the CPC to buy votes. Guess what, everyone who owns a firearm is required to have a PAL/RPAL. Regardless of who’s in charge, the RCMP have ALL OF US in a computer with our PAL/RPAL. Everyone here who does not own a Swiss should be very concerned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEQiCDYowi4

But in case you would like to voice your concern about the RCMP:

www.cpc-cpp.gc.ca

complaints@cpc-cpp.gc.ca (for complaints)
org@cpc-cpp.gc.ca (general inquiries)
1-800-665-6878
 
Last edited:
The RCMP may have dreams of confiscating all firearms in Canada,,,but it's just a dream,,it will NEVER happen,,,the dont have the resources,,the money,,or the guts to even try it,,,they'd be in for a hell of a fight and they know it,,,they change laws as much as they want,,but a lot of gun owners DONT care,,,and there is no such thing as a LITTLE illegal,,,you're all in,,or you're all out,,,there is no middle ground,,i can garantee you one thing,,even if they do reclassify all kinds of firearms,,,they will likely NEVER see any turned in,,,many will end up burried and hidden away along with thousands of rounds of ammunition,,,and with no more LGR....they cant be sure WHO owns them anymore,,,
 
It still effects every one of us, I'd rather be able to enjoy the firearms in my possession than simply know i have one buried in the backyard.
hootguy said:
The RCMP may have dreams of confiscating all firearms in Canada,,,but it's just a dream,,it will NEVER happen,,,the dont have the resources,,the money,,or the guts to even try it,,,they'd be in for a hell of a fight and they know it,,,they change laws as much as they want,,but a lot of gun owners DONT care,,,and there is no such thing as a LITTLE illegal,,,you're all in,,or you're all out,,,there is no middle ground,,i can garantee you one thing,,even if they do reclassify all kinds of firearms,,,they will likely NEVER see any turned in,,,many will end up burried and hidden away along with thousands of rounds of ammunition,,,and with no more LGR....they cant be sure WHO owns them anymore,,,
Click to expand...
 
hootguy said:
The RCMP may have dreams of confiscating all firearms in Canada,,,but it's just a dream,,it will NEVER happen,,,the dont have the resources,,the money,,or the guts to even try it,,,they'd be in for a hell of a fight and they know it,,,they change laws as much as they want,,but a lot of gun owners DONT care,,,and there is no such thing as a LITTLE illegal,,,you're all in,,or you're all out,,,there is no middle ground,,i can garantee you one thing,,even if they do reclassify all kinds of firearms,,,they will likely NEVER see any turned in,,,many will end up burried and hidden away along with thousands of rounds of ammunition,,,and with no more LGR....they cant be sure WHO owns them anymore,,,
Click to expand...

Hypothetically speaking, when you bury your gun you are admitting defeat! You no longer count you are not even a statistic, you have fallen off the planet. You can,t use your gun, display her at a Gun Show, show her to your friends or display her, you can not even brag that you have defied the Government, you no longer count. You have just admitted defeat, you have surrendered, well I was brought up never to surrender, not even retreat, maybe practice a fighting withdrawal but not retreat and never admitt to defeat.

Remember that criminal charges are a very serious matter and would cost a gun owner dearly, nothing to be trifled with. The time to unite, close ranks and fight is now!
 
Ideally we as a community should have prepared for this when news of the reexamination of the SAN rifles first hit. As is human nature, this is not the case. There is no point in crying over wasted time, but I for one am not going to take this round lying down. I was too young and financially burdened when the last round of idiocy came and went and many of items I sorely miss are now gone forever.

I think, ideally, that the best strategy going forward past this round of court challenges and the like is to develop a stronger community nationwide. An umbrella organization with proper terms of reference, educational programs, competitions and strong ties to our business partners is what is needed. I could easily write a long essay but my point is to engage all owners and sport shooters into one group. Be it skeet shooters, long range precision shooters, biathalon shooters, sport shooters of military style arms...all need to belong to one organization that sanctions the competitions, holds educational sessions, basic gunsmithing or maintenance seminars, voluntarily exceed the expectations of CFC and the RCMP in attitude towards safety, etc. Build a national culture instead of small regional ones - hire a PR consultant - make people see us for who we are - responsible sport shooters, hunters, collectors...

We need a sensible lobby, realistic goals and a stepwise logical action plan.

End rant. Let the flaming begin...
 
viallet said:
Ideally we as a community should have prepared for this when news of the reexamination of the SAN rifles first hit. As is human nature, this is not the case. There is no point in crying over wasted time, but I for one am not going to take this round lying down. I was too young and financially burdened when the last round of idiocy came and went and many of items I sorely miss are now gone forever.

I think, ideally, that the best strategy going forward past this round of court challenges and the like is to develop a stronger community nationwide. An umbrella organization with proper terms of reference, educational programs, competitions and strong ties to our business partners is what is needed. I could easily write a long essay but my point is to engage all owners and sport shooters into one group. Be it skeet shooters, long range precision shooters, biathalon shooters, sport shooters of military style arms...all need to belong to one organization that sanctions the competitions, holds educational sessions, basic gunsmithing or maintenance seminars, voluntarily exceed the expectations of CFC and the RCMP in attitude towards safety, etc. Build a national culture instead of small regional ones - hire a PR consultant - make people see us for who we are - responsible sport shooters, hunters, collectors...

We need a sensible lobby, realistic goals and a stepwise logical action plan.

End rant. Let the flaming begin...
Click to expand...

That is not a rant, that is a very intelligent post.
 
Hypothetically speaking, YES ,,,hypoteticlay speaking we couldnt use them,,,Hypothetically speaking,,,thanks Mr Wolverine,,,i know you are in our corner,,,and hope the court challenges succeed...it would be awsome to defeat the RCMP,,,it would send a clear signal the firearms owners are legitimate force to be reckoned with for political parties,,,they might even fight to have us on THEIR side...
 
So I've been thinking about this and either the RCMP has been infiltrated by communist!

Or this is the start of the UN Small Arms Ban, test run!

Thoughts???
 
Last edited:
"Elections may change Government but the behind the scenes bureaucracy remains unchanged and they work away to their own agenda."
If ever there was a Government where this is not the case, you have it now. The current PMO keeps a tight rein on every Ministry and any bureaucrat that step out of line with the PMO might as update their resume. Heck, even Ministers tow the line with this PMO like non before. There is one agenda, the PMO's agenda.
So, John, the buck stops at the PMO on this one and to place any efforts at some 'bureaucratic boogie man' is misplaced efforts.
 
viallet said:
Ideally we as a community should have prepared for this when news of the reexamination of the SAN rifles first hit. As is human nature, this is not the case. There is no point in crying over wasted time, but I for one am not going to take this round lying down. I was too young and financially burdened when the last round of idiocy came and went and many of items I sorely miss are now gone forever.

I think, ideally, that the best strategy going forward past this round of court challenges and the like is to develop a stronger community nationwide. An umbrella organization with proper terms of reference, educational programs, competitions and strong ties to our business partners is what is needed. I could easily write a long essay but my point is to engage all owners and sport shooters into one group. Be it skeet shooters, long range precision shooters, biathalon shooters, sport shooters of military style arms...all need to belong to one organization that sanctions the competitions, holds educational sessions, basic gunsmithing or maintenance seminars, voluntarily exceed the expectations of CFC and the RCMP in attitude towards safety, etc. Build a national culture instead of small regional ones - hire a PR consultant - make people see us for who we are - responsible sport shooters, hunters, collectors...

We need a sensible lobby, realistic goals and a stepwise logical action plan.

End rant. Let the flaming begin...
Click to expand...


Thank you for your post, it gave me the encouragement to post my thoughts.

I too think it is time for a national united lobby of firearms owners in Canada. This recent decision by the RCMP has made me think long and hard about what we need to do as a group of voting citizens. There is no need to re-invent the wheel. We only need to look south at the NRA to see lobby power in action.

Now, I'm not saying the NRA is perfect, it is with some faults, but they get the job done. Having worked with municipal political campaigns in the past, it comes down to numbers. The NRA has between 3 and 5 million members (they will not release their membership roll so there is no exact number) out of a population of 313 million people (2012 census). I'm not sure how many members the NFA or CSSA have, but if we have between 2 and 3 million firearms owners in Canada and a population of 31 million, we should, by the numbers, have a fairly easy path to creating/having a national lobby group with effective power.

It is true we do not have the same manufactures (Colt, Remington etc) in Canada that could provide the financial backing to finance TV ads and pay the large salaries the NRA employees and President ( LaPierre, was paid a salary of $831,709 in 2011 according to his tax returns) receive to actively spread the word and influence politicians. Surely between our numbers as firearms owners and with the support of firearms businesses in Canada, the financing of a strong, united, lobby that includes a modern and relevant presence both on the Internet and in the media is within reach.

We are working hard to get up to even 5000 signers on a petition of great importance. With a well directed, financed national lobby, and proper experienced paid action campaigners, we should have had half a million in one day.

Yes, Viallet, in your words "We need a sensible lobby, realistic goals and a stepwise logical action plan".

Kudos to Solomon Friedman who was interviewed on the CBC regarding the SA reclassification. He had a confident, straightforward message that non-firearms owners in Canada needed to hear. I think most people can agree, that this kind of message is what we need now more than ever.

Is there a representative from the NFA or CSSA on CGN that can speak to this? Can one of these organisations become the lobbying power that is now needed in this country, or does something need to start from scratch? If it is the latter, I am happy to start from square one untill we are where we want to be.

At the end of the day, we need to effectively organise not only among ourselves but to make in roads with the non-firearms owning population of Canada to make effective, lasting change in our system, so we can spend more time enjoying our firearms and less time trying to defend them.
 
UNITE

wolverines.jpg


WolverinesTWO.jpg
 
Mr Wolverine said:
Hypothetically speaking, when you bury your gun you are admitting defeat! You no longer count you are not even a statistic, you have fallen off the planet. You can,t use your gun, display her at a Gun Show, show her to your friends or display her, you can not even brag that you have defied the Government, you no longer count. You have just admitted defeat, you have surrendered, well I was brought up never to surrender, not even retreat, maybe practice a fighting withdrawal but not retreat and never admitt to defeat.

Remember that criminal charges are a very serious matter and would cost a gun owner dearly, nothing to be trifled with. The time to unite, close ranks and fight is now!
Click to expand...

Powerful words sir - As I read the anger frustration, condemnation from the firearms community I cant help but wonder how ineptly shortsighted some of these CGN subscribers are at times - this can also be said to the two dealers that had inadvertently caused this train wreckage to begin with.

Looking from outside the box - the antis/RCMP brass want this type of implosion to occur among this tight knit group. Passionate as firearm owners are with civil liberties, the end by-product often ends up becoming a dog with bark and no bite.

There has been recent exceptions that have been hard fought and won. IE: The acquittal of careless store and careless use charges on Ian Thomson. The campaign to Turf EX-Liberal MP for Ajax-Pickering, Mark Holland and the repeal of the LGR as the crowning achievement.

WHAT factor did these cases have all in common?

They all took a long long long time to change.

This next crisis that the firearms community is incensed over is our world that we live in. AND its ALWAYS going to be that world. It comes with the hobby. Putting the dealers that caused this under a bus will not change this crisis. By going this path, we will have played into the ANTIs/RCMP brass strategy: divide and divide and conquer. No thats not a typo btw. They want this group as splintered & isolated as possible to weaken response and worse yet to further erode our already tainted and often scorned public perception of firearm owners.

Only two ways to deal with this current crises and also when the next 20 other crises become front and centre: never surrender good principles or figuratively and or literally bury your guns and your head in the ground.
 
time to show that the firearm act is not about public safety but rather a repressive law with politics at it's center.

do any of the orgs have a replacement concept ready? Back in the day the NFA had such a document.
having such a document would give us a common voice to rally behind.
 
Last edited:
I think the simple answer with reclassification is to give current owners prohib status endorsement on their PALs.

I'm not sure how that would work for them with ATTs though and many would be disappointed they can no longer hunt with them.

This seems like the only sure-fire way they would even find out about most of the guns out there.
 
While I have never been a member of either CSSA or NFA, or a Swiss Arm owner, nor a purchaser from the store in question, it has got me thinking of joining something, so I went to both organizations web sites, and while CSSAs looks nice, it has nothing about this situation with Swiss Arms, it's last talked about thing was the long gun registry, while in contrast the NFA has a write up on this topic, dated for Feb 27th. and other topic dated Feb. 21 so of the two it was easy for me as to which one my money is going to, check will be in the mail today.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom