Federal Line of Bear and Wild Animal Defence 9mm Rounds

thegazelle

thegazelle

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I found saw this at the local store recently and curious what everyone's thoughts are on this.

https://g4cgunstore.com/product/federal-solid-core-9mm-luger-p-147gr-syntech-polymer-jacket-20rds/

I wasn't aware that there was a market for a 9mm round for bear defence. Assuming these would go into carbines, but if a bear was charging me, I'm not sure this is what I would want to have equipped. But I have been wrong before and am hardly an expert on these matters. For those who may actually encounter bear issues, would you trust this round (of course, I understand the round is only as effective as the shooter's ability to shoot the firearm effectively, but I am just asking in general)?

I guess the solid core properties makes it more apt to be effective against bears with tough hides rather than the typical self defence hollow point round found in 9mm. Always nice to see new and interesting products out there, but I'd wonder how this would differ than a standard 147gr FMJ or ball round or is this more of a gimmick?
 
Maybe with a large Glock - 20+ rounds might be enough ? A bear skull or even ribs are pretty dense. Gimme my 12G semi . . . even 5 is still a "last chance" unless there's time to aim well.
 
I like to see more options like this. The spec looks similar to both Buffalo Bore and Underwood special purpose loads for 9mm +P (147gr hard cast flat nose at 1100fps). Federal claims 1120fps for these, out of a 4" barrel. Similar flat nose to the others, but these Federals look longer and have a smaller meplat, which I think is less ideal (but there are pros and cons there). Buffalo Bore and Underwood both say they use flash suppressed powders, Federal makes no comment on the matter.

As far as compared to standard 147gr FMJ: Penetration and wound channel are what matters for this application. As long as the bullet is tough enough, higher muzzle velocity means more penetration. Standard 147gr FMJ is under 1000fps, so there's a plus. Probably a better wound channel with these Federals, too, but you can't know for sure until you see testing in realistic targets. I'm guessing they went with polymer coated hard cast to appeal to Glock pistol shooters who don't want to use uncoated cast bullets.
 
And as far as suitability of the cartridge goes, that's probably a better topic for the hunting rifles forum.

But we're here, and I can't resist: If a 9mm PCC is what you have or prefer, and you've proven its reliability with the ammunition you'll be carrying, and you know how to use it, then it can be a great option. I don't think anyone is going to argue that 9mm is hands-down the best cartridge for wildlife defense, but it probably is the best choice for a lot of people. Personally I wouldn't have a problem with it for critters including black bear, as long as it's paired with the right ammunition (I'll say that about any option, though).

There are a lot of pros to using a lightweight, quick-pointing, easy to control 9mm semi-auto carbine with 11rds of appropriate ammunition.
 
If I had to choose between that hard cast 9mm or bear spray, I’d choose a couple cans of spray. The minimum handgun caliber they will allow for wilderness atc in Canada is .357mag and even that is underpowered for black bear, if it’s all you had I guess it’s better than nothing when all else has failed to deter the bear but I wouldn’t want to rely on it.
 
Not the best choice but 9mm works for black bear. I have witnessed it first hand when a pesky 300lbs-/+ boar decided he wouldn't leave my Grandmother's neighbor's apple trees without a fight in Terrace, BC. One round and the thing was DRT. Saying it would be useless or that you need a .357 minimum is really showing a lack of any actual experience. Not ideal does not mean inadequate.
 
I recall seeing someone in here present an article stating that 9mm was the most frequently used cartridge in effective bear defense scenarios where the bear was killed.
I'm guessing the popularity and sheer volume of people carrying 9mm vs other cartridges contributed to the results.
 
B said:
Not the best choice but 9mm works for black bear. I have witnessed it first hand when a pesky 300lbs-/+ boar decided he wouldn't leave my Grandmother's neighbor's apple trees without a fight in Terrace, BC. One round and the thing was DRT. Saying it would be useless or that you need a .357 minimum is really showing a lack of any actual experience. Not ideal does not mean inadequate.
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Sure thing boss lol.
 
If we were allowed to carry handguns in the bush I would use ammo similar to this for defense. 9mm isn't nearly as powerful as a 44 magnum but most people can shoot 9mm fairly quickly and accurately. Plus a Glock is nicer to carry than a big revolver and much faster to reload. I wouldn't carry a PCC for defense as it's the same size as a rifle so no advantage to me. But others might see the advantage as they can shoot a PCC better than a rifle cartridge or shotgun.
 
[h=1]Alaska Outfitter Defends Fishermen from Raging Grizzly with 9mm Pistol[/h]
https://www.americanhunter.org/cont...ishermen-from-raging-grizzly-with-9mm-pistol/
Larry and his wife were fishing with me, and because we were going to a small stream I had fished before, which had numerous large male brown bears, I decided to take my Smith & Wesson 3953 DAO 9mm, rather than the S&W 629 .44 Mag. Mountain Gun I have carried for the past 25 years, as the larger boars are usually less of a problem than sows with cubs.
Before we reached the stream, while we were walking through dense brush and tall grass, we heard a growl and deep “woof” of a bear approximately 6 feet to our right (behind me in the secondary photo). We had been talking loudly but must have startled a sleeping bear. It sounded like it made a movement toward us, and I shouted loudly and the bear ran back through the brush to the right in the photo. Within 15 seconds, we could hear it growling and charging through the dense brush from the opposite side...
Butcherbill said:
Sure thing boss lol.
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....yupp..lol
bear-9mm.jpg
 
He had to shoot it 7 times, lol. That’s more than enough to show you how poor 9mm hard cast is on a small bear as well, they’re all lucky it wasn’t a large mature grizzly.

I guess when you spray and pray you’re bound to get lucky, if I was on a guided fishing/hunting trip and the guide had better options for a defensive gun and picked the 9mm I’d probably question their ability to keep everyone safe. If it was a mature Grizzly the outcome wouldn’t have been as good most likely.
 
Again, nobody is going to say that 9mm is hands-down the best cartridge for the purpose. You need to get rounds on target, and you need the bullet to penetrate.

Whatever cartridge and ammunition you use, the bullet needs reliable and sufficient hard surface penetration to get a CNS hit. For this application, any other outcome is a failure (though some failures are worse than others).

For many years I was completely unaware of just how poorly the most common 12 gauge slugs perform in terms of hard surface penetration. I guess it shouldn't be surprising, since those are Foster slugs and are cast quite soft in order to perform better in typical deer hunting scenarios. In theory, I have no problem believing that good 9mm hard cast ammunition is capable of performing better, but I'd like to see a good test to confirm it.
 
shot placement and with the added element of luck....as in the native woman who killed a grizzly with a 22 single shot....get a shot into the brain of any large animal and it will likely stop....FMJ 7x57 into elephant brains in africa was common practice at one time too...those fellows were likely incredible shots....boers used to hit hens eggs at 100 meters with those same rifles btw....having shot many wounded moose and deer in the head with an issue 9mm I can say I was underwhelmed....
 
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wannabe said:
having shot many wounded moose and deer in the head with an issue 9mm I can say I was underwhelmed....
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A JHP would really be my last choice. Making it through most any large animal's skull does take a lot of power. I was pretty amazed at how fast the bear I spoke of earlier died though. Inconsistent seems to be a good word for 9mm.
 
hitting a stationary target the size of a brain at short range is not a particularly difficult shot.....hitting a brain size target running towards you at 30 km/hr while it twists and turns, raises and lowers is another thing entirely....now enters the single shot power vs the multiple hit argument....458 ruger #1 vs 223 fmj semi auto? 454 vs 9mm? or the old standby 00buck vs slug...I tend to side with a balance of the 2....308 repeater minimum for a defensive bear gun...a 9mm carbine sticks me as a wounded bear scenario waiting to happen...to the point of being hauled before a judge defending myself against a "causing unnecessary suffering of an animal" charge....9mm is a plinker and an enforcement/battle caliber intend to two footed vermin its maybe a racoon getter but even a running coyote deserves better...but opinions are like azzholes and I know I been accused of such lol
 
https://www.americanhunter.org/content/8-best-charge-stopping-bear-cartridges/

"8. .357 S&W Magnum
While some folks claim the .44 Magnum is the minimum for charging bears, many others have opted for a Glock 20 in 10mm Auto and, interestingly enough, passed right by the .357 S&W Magnum. Several folks have even successfully killed bears with a 9mm. While a well-placed shot from a 10mm can no doubt do the trick, the .357 Mag. has 780 ft.-lbs. of energy, while the 10mm has about 728 ft.-lbs., both with a 180-grain Buffalo Bore bullet. As Nelson has seen in bear defense training, many shooters have cycling issues with the 10mm due to the “limp-wrist syndrome,” something that isn’t an issue with a revolver and is the last thing you want to happen during a bear charge. The .357 is also available in smaller-framed revolvers that fit smaller hands, making it ideal for women and less experienced shooters. Any way you slice it, the .357 has proven itself as a worthy close-range bear stopper."
 
^good points made there. I would add though that shooting accurately and FAST in double action is also pretty difficult. Anyone who would limp wrist a semi would also probably short stroke a shotgun. Practice is a huge part of animal defence especially when you are talking bears.

Staying on topic, the 9mm is still capable of killing and the OP's ammo may be a decent option for those with no other option or the somewhat erroneous inclination to choose a 9mm.
 
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