Federal Yes What Powder?
- Thread starter fraserdw
- Start date
Most factory powders aren't the exact same ones we buy. What we get are known as canister powders; which are just lots selected to bottled up to ensure that the can you buy this year is very similar to the can you bought 5 years ago. Factories aren't under those types of constraints, they load to pressure and velocity and will vary the charge between powder lots.
All of this is just a long way of saying that Federal could even tell you what was in there and you wouldn't recognize the name anyway. If you just want to know what its more or less like you could weigh a pulled charge and checked against a few reloading manuals to see which powders are at that weight with that weight of bullet, and at your velocity. For instance if you pulled down 139 grains loads and they were coming in at 27 grains, and it was a fine grained powder that looked like 322 then its going to be a mystery powder of lot #XYZ that has a burn rate more or less like 322. If that factory load happened to be one of your favorites of all time you might want to work up a load with 322.
If I had a pail full of powder that I was sure had a burn rate rate like more or less 322, and a rifle that used powders more or less like 322 I'd probably select a load for 322 and start low. We do that sort of thing all the time with surplus ball powders that we were told was like H335 but a bit faster, or H414 but a bit slower. Chances are, you aren't dealing with enough to make it worth the effort. In that case I'd just chuck it.
All of this is just a long way of saying that Federal could even tell you what was in there and you wouldn't recognize the name anyway. If you just want to know what its more or less like you could weigh a pulled charge and checked against a few reloading manuals to see which powders are at that weight with that weight of bullet, and at your velocity. For instance if you pulled down 139 grains loads and they were coming in at 27 grains, and it was a fine grained powder that looked like 322 then its going to be a mystery powder of lot #XYZ that has a burn rate more or less like 322. If that factory load happened to be one of your favorites of all time you might want to work up a load with 322.
If I had a pail full of powder that I was sure had a burn rate rate like more or less 322, and a rifle that used powders more or less like 322 I'd probably select a load for 322 and start low. We do that sort of thing all the time with surplus ball powders that we were told was like H335 but a bit faster, or H414 but a bit slower. Chances are, you aren't dealing with enough to make it worth the effort. In that case I'd just chuck it.
One could look up what Ken Waters (RIP) said about the 7-30 Waters and go from there.
Or find out the fps of the Federal round one is trying to mimic .
Use available powder (reloading manuals) and aim for the listed velocities.
I was playing with that method in other calibers.
Some came close others not so much.
Rob
no puns intended in this post.....
Or find out the fps of the Federal round one is trying to mimic .
Use available powder (reloading manuals) and aim for the listed velocities.
I was playing with that method in other calibers.
Some came close others not so much.
Rob
no puns intended in this post.....
I have gone as far as directly asking Federal what powders they have used, and have yet to get any response from the company.
But as stated above, it may not help as their powders are not the same as we have available to us.
Rob's advice is as good as one can do to duplicate the load, but as they also use a different barrel to your rifle, if you get close, you will be doing well.
But as stated above, it may not help as their powders are not the same as we have available to us.
Rob's advice is as good as one can do to duplicate the load, but as they also use a different barrel to your rifle, if you get close, you will be doing well.
- Location
- Saskatchewan
About the closest I've come to duplicating factory loads is with the following method: take a few cartridges apart, weigh the charges and look at the powder. Do a shooting test for velocity over a chronograph. Try to match up the powder charge that was observed and measured with a canister grade reloading powder that looks the same ( same size and shape and colour granules) and according to your reloading manual would likely give the same velocity with that charge. Of course you need to use the same case and bullet and primer too. Start low, and check the velocity actually achieved compared with the load in your manual. It sometimes works out OK, but not always.
A manufacturer makes a power under a certain designation. e.g 844, 2208 or RP28. Each time they make a lot (around 2,000 to 6,000 pounds) they test it and note a burning rate. If the burning rate happens to match the canister version of that power, it gets packaged and sold as the powder you know as BLC2, Varget, RL-15, or whatever.
Your 7-08 was loaded with a powder suitable for the job. It might have a canister equivalent, but most of the powders made are only used commercially and there is not canister version. And even if Federal told you what powder they used, and even if there is a canister version, the next time they load a run of 7-08 they might very well use a different powder.
Most calibers have several powders that meet the pressure/velocity/accuracy standard that the company demands.
You have the same choices. Powders that come to mind are 748 & H380 if you want to throw the charges into the cases. If you want to weigh each charge Varget and 4350 work well.
Your 7-08 was loaded with a powder suitable for the job. It might have a canister equivalent, but most of the powders made are only used commercially and there is not canister version. And even if Federal told you what powder they used, and even if there is a canister version, the next time they load a run of 7-08 they might very well use a different powder.
Most calibers have several powders that meet the pressure/velocity/accuracy standard that the company demands.
You have the same choices. Powders that come to mind are 748 & H380 if you want to throw the charges into the cases. If you want to weigh each charge Varget and 4350 work well.
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
While lots of reloaders try to mimic factory loads, I prefer to tailor the load to the individual rifle, and find the load that shoots best. Often better than factory.
There have been cases where it was rumored that for example Winchester used a canister grade powder in a certain cartridge. It's been rumored that Win 760 was used in the 30-30 for example. However, you just never know, and if they did do that, they could easily change it tomorrow, as they are looking for certain parameters for their load, and can order powder to fit what they need.
There have been cases where it was rumored that for example Winchester used a canister grade powder in a certain cartridge. It's been rumored that Win 760 was used in the 30-30 for example. However, you just never know, and if they did do that, they could easily change it tomorrow, as they are looking for certain parameters for their load, and can order powder to fit what they need.
Ammo manufacturers don't load all the calibers, all the time. They make occasional runs of a large volume from time to time.
So if they are going to load, say, 250,000 rounds of 30-06, they would look to see if they happened to have a ton of an appropriate powder in stock. Probably not.
So they would turn to one or two powder makers (say IMR and OLIN) and ask what they had available. The IMR guy might say "We have 2,000 pounds of a slow 4350, 2000 pounds of a fast 4831 and 2000 pounds of slow 4064 (all suitable powders).
The ammo maker would then place an order.
I use 4350, 4064 and 4831 as examples that you can relate to. In practice, there are several other powders in that speed range that you have never heard of.
I can recall the powders having modified names, to reflect their speed. Red Dot ( a shotgun powder) was available as Red Dot 1, Red Dot 2 or Red Dot 3. 3 was the slowest. Having a choice was handy, so we could fine tune the wad column to be exactly the height we wanted.
So if they are going to load, say, 250,000 rounds of 30-06, they would look to see if they happened to have a ton of an appropriate powder in stock. Probably not.
So they would turn to one or two powder makers (say IMR and OLIN) and ask what they had available. The IMR guy might say "We have 2,000 pounds of a slow 4350, 2000 pounds of a fast 4831 and 2000 pounds of slow 4064 (all suitable powders).
The ammo maker would then place an order.
I use 4350, 4064 and 4831 as examples that you can relate to. In practice, there are several other powders in that speed range that you have never heard of.
I can recall the powders having modified names, to reflect their speed. Red Dot ( a shotgun powder) was available as Red Dot 1, Red Dot 2 or Red Dot 3. 3 was the slowest. Having a choice was handy, so we could fine tune the wad column to be exactly the height we wanted.
I plan to do exactly this to try to "replicate" Federal's 200gr Fusion load for 338 Fed. I have QuickLoad as well, so that will likely come in handy. Going to buy a box or two of the Fusion next weekend. Either way, the brass will come in handy some day.
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