Federal's 180 HE in M305?

eltorro

eltorro

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Last year I had my buddy wounding a moose because he used 150 SSTs and the bullet didn't perform. The sad part is that I recommended him to use them as my past experience with a deer was formidable positive.

Now I realized that if it was me, I would have probably not done any better using that SST. The problem is solved as I reload now.....but:
The question:
would have been possible to use the 308 NP HE form Federal in my M305?
Possible like safe and ok, not like in " you do it and we watch you die" kind of thing.
The label on the ammo box says: not for semiato use.
My little trick would be to turn the valve off. Would work like a bolt action, but that does not matter ... emergency situation.

Any thoughts?
 
"The label on the ammo box says: not for semiauto use"
What part of the label do you not understand .If by chance you failed to turn the valve you could at the worst case have Catastrophic failure which may result in severe personal injurie.Also if you did turn the valve and fired how are you going get the case out if you can not get the oprod open the bolt may be stand on the cocking handle?.These Cartridges are loaded hot ie higher pressures for bolt action rifles that Bolt actions can stand over those the Semi autos including the M305 .If you have your heart set on doing this go right ahead :rolleyes:
 
all I was asking is if any of you gentlemen have thought of this and/or used it.
It is not a good practise to use high pressure rounds in semiautos (in semiauto mode) but the M14 has the feature of closing the spindle valve for use of grenade launches.
the reason I mentioned the label is because I didn't want to re-edit the thread about using the 180s.
Just thought it would make an interesting approach to using the higher energy rounds - not necesarily the will to do it just to prove a point.

"The Label SHOULD be self explanatory.

SKBY."

Thank you, Skullboy. Never thought of that!
 
Last fall before hunting season I asked a clerk in a local gun shop for some Hornady SST 150 gr. He gave me a box of SST light mag instead. After reading the end flap with higher velocity and energy ratings, I decided to check with the manufacturer. Hornady told me that high energy light mag loads are for bolt guns only and not to use them in a semi. From the M14 forum a knowledgeable amorer detailed the excessive pressures involved in firing such a round in an M14 type rifle and what possibly could happen. I sold the SST light mags to a friend with a Sako bolt gun.
 
eltorro said:
Would you use them with the spindle valve off?
Click to expand...

Nope! And without trying to sound snotty why would a person want to? The M14 type rifle was originally designed as a select fire battle rifle with a cyclic rate of fire of 600 RPM, using 147gr FMJs. The rifle, let alone the gas system, was not designed to withstand the extremely high pressures of light mag loads. I wish I could find the post of the armorer so it would be clearer to you. But even with the spindle valve off you would be asking for trouble.
 
Ammo for M305 or M1A

Savage said:
"The label on the ammo box says: not for semiauto use"
What part of the label do you not understand .If by chance you failed to turn the valve you could at the worst case have Catastrophic failure which may result in severe personal injurie.Also if you did turn the valve and fired how are you going get the case out if you can not get the oprod open the bolt may be stand on the cocking handle?.These Cartridges are loaded hot ie higher pressures for bolt action rifles that Bolt actions can stand over those the Semi autos including the M305 .If you have your heart set on doing this go right ahead :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Not too sure about this, but let's say if your M305 or to be more specific a M1A SuperMatch/M21 or M25 would have a Krieger or Douglas barrel set up, you can correct me if I am wrong but it may take 168gr Match+ ammunition....Stock M305, Don't even try it man!
 
On a side note, if 150gr bullets from a .308 arn't doing the job on a Moose then your friend is aiming in the wrong place. 150gr rounds are perfectly adiquit for moose, no matter what the ammo box "usage guide" recomends:rolleyes:
 
eltorro said:
all I was asking is if any of you gentlemen have thought of this and/or used it.
It is not a good practise to use high pressure rounds in semiautos (in semiauto mode) but the M14 has the feature of closing the spindle valve for use of grenade launches.
the reason I mentioned the label is because I didn't want to re-edit the thread about using the 180s.
Just thought it would make an interesting approach to using the higher energy rounds - not necesarily the will to do it just to prove a point.

"The Label SHOULD be self explanatory.

SKBY."

Thank you, Skullboy. Never thought of that!
Click to expand...

Sorry man, I don't mean to come off like a d*ck, but the factory warnings are there for a reason.If you start playing around with modern high pressure ammo in a rifle that wasn't reallt designed for it, you are inviting trouble/KABOOOM.

SKBY.:)
 
Ljungman said:
On a side note, if 150gr bullets from a .308 arn't doing the job on a Moose then your friend is aiming in the wrong place. 150gr rounds are perfectly adiquit for moose, no matter what the ammo box "usage guide" recomends
Click to expand...

150's are. SST 150s on a quarter towards shot are not. Iron sights.... no head shots.... let's not go there. After a few hours in the swamp looking for the four-legged critter I would have gladly used a bayonet isntead of that bullet.
My deer died instantly though. Small entry, small exit....I thought it died of heart attack. Inside - jelly lungs. Broadside shot though. With the M305.

Tanks for the replies , guys.
I found this on Turf's link : Schuster's adjustable gas plug.
Anyone used them?
 
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Actually the problem isn't that the HE/LM loads are loaded to a higher pressure, they aren't, it's that they sustain a higher pressure for a longer time, which shoves the bullet harder, longer and thus faster. It should be no problem using them in a recoil operated (like the H&K) semi, because they won't open until the pressure drops to a safe level (probably ;-) ) on a gas-op, like the M14, instead of the pressure at the gas port being (let's say) 12,000 psi, it's 25,000 psi. I'm sure you can see that as a bad thing.

On turning the gas spindle to "off". How many of you have launched grenades with an M14? I've launched them with the FN, using the special blank (it's most assuredly not the usual blank one uses with a BFA).
When we did the launching we used rifles that had their pistons removed and the gas plugs wired into the "off" position. We were told, that firing a grade in the normal position would likely cause us injury, but even if we weren't hurt, the rifle would never fire again.

With the gas off the M14 should be as strong as a decent bolt rifle.
One point tho' , Have you ever tried it? It makes a pretty lousy bolt gun.
 
in a stock, unmodified M14, for continuous, high volume use (thousands of rounds with no major failures), 168 grains is the heaviest that is recomended. I have personally fired some of my old 190 grain loads from my metallic sillohette days (they were below "manual max" loads of IMR 4064) and they worked fine. Though accuracy was pretty poor, with some slight keyholing.
I'm sure a couple hundred standard commercial 180 loads wouldn't damage a new rifle too much.
 
In The main, try not to go heavier the 168grs.

A continous diet of heavier bullets will take it's toll on the rifle.Op rods tend to bend,gas piston ends tend to mushroom, glass bedding wil degrade/crack, etc.

The U.S. Army/Marine rifle team will use 175gr, and up to 190gr bullets.

BUT, they travel with a nice Armorer's van with a load of replacement parts, plus they rebuild their rifle every season.

A few 180gr bullets for hunting will be ok.;)

SKBY.
 
tried to find weights for some 7.62x51 ammo....
please, let me know the weight for:
1. Norinco 7.62x51
2. Portuguese .308Win
regards
thanks
 
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