Working up loads for a 375 H&H in a CZ and a 375Ruger in a Mossberg Patriot I've realized that I don't really have much experience with boomers to judge what heavy recoil is. The CZ is 10 1/2lbs, firm off the bench, not an issue standing. The Mossberg is a couple lbs lighter, painful after a dozen off the bench, firm standing. It requires a firm hold standing but it isn't painful. The loads I'm comparing are higher end in both rifles. I use a rest on the bench, but not a sled. The bench is for load development, after that it's all standing. My shoulder takes all the recoil. The CZ I could be comfortable chambered in a stronger cartridge, but much more in the Mossberg wouldn't be fun. Other than 30 rnds off the bench working up a load in my buddy's Ruger 338WM, which was firm off the bench, I don't have anything to compare to. From the "boomer" guys what is yours recoil comparative experience.
Felt recoil??
- Thread starter emerson
- Start date
I have always thought my 375s recoiled like a 12ga. using 3" goose loads.
Naturally bigger rifles like my 416 Taylor or the 404 Jeffery have more push but it depends how they are held.
One range I belonged to had one special bench made taller so a person could literally put the big boomer on the bags same as a sitting bench except that you could virtually stand while firing and that made a huge difference because the body rolled better with recoil than from a sitting position.... especially with a thumper like a 458 with 500 gr. loads.
Naturally bigger rifles like my 416 Taylor or the 404 Jeffery have more push but it depends how they are held.
One range I belonged to had one special bench made taller so a person could literally put the big boomer on the bags same as a sitting bench except that you could virtually stand while firing and that made a huge difference because the body rolled better with recoil than from a sitting position.... especially with a thumper like a 458 with 500 gr. loads.
recoil is so subjective that it's hard for two people to compare them. The biggest caliber I've been shooting lately is a 375 h&h and I find it to be equal to or a little harder hitting than a 45/70. Only time I've ever been sore after a range visit is 20 rounds of each 7mm R.E.M. Mag and 338 win.
notsorichguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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My personal "worst" is 60 rounds of 378 Weatherby Mag in one range session..... Off the bench doing ladder tests.
It was a MK5 Weatherby, so the weight helped as did the muzzle brake. But I was still feeling "concussed" after that range trip!
Here's a felt recoil table I found online.
w w w .chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm
Cheers!
It was a MK5 Weatherby, so the weight helped as did the muzzle brake. But I was still feeling "concussed" after that range trip!
Here's a felt recoil table I found online.
w w w .chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm
Cheers!
I always thought my 10lb 375 H&H was a pussycat to shoot. The 8.5lb Ruger is fine, but the most I shot in a row was 36 rounds while working up loads, and after that I think AI was ready for a break. Most I've shot in a row from my 50BMG is 12 rounds.
I could always do more, but honestly, why bother if you are getting worn out...
I could always do more, but honestly, why bother if you are getting worn out...
Purple shoulder
Regular
- Location
- Winnipeg MB
My shooting bench is high. When sitting up straight on the seat the but plate is lined right up to my shoulded. I hate be hunched over.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
The Brits regulate heavy doubles using a standing bench. Too much shooting of heavies in one session isn't good for your form. And if your form goes to #### then any further shooting is wasted, not only for that session, but future sessions as well.
When I built loads for my 416 Rigby I did a lot of shooting over the top of a round bale. It was the perfect height. Shooting from field positions isn't that bad, but bench shooting is a whole other animal.
When I built loads for my 416 Rigby I did a lot of shooting over the top of a round bale. It was the perfect height. Shooting from field positions isn't that bad, but bench shooting is a whole other animal.
- Location
- In the shadows of the Rockies
A rifle that has a bit of weight of course helps to tame recoil as does an effective recoil pad. Lighter and faster vs. heavier and slower - a .416 that fires a 300gr bullet at 3000 fps has rather sharp recoil compared to a .458 that fires a 500gr bullet at 2000 fps which is more of a push. Recoil is felt more off the bench than it is in the field.
You might find a threshold speed for comfort. As a reloader you can always back off the speed to below that level. My 9.3x74R Ruger No.1, which is a lightweight rifle, was a bit much when loaded with 286gr bullets at 2500 fps so I reduced the powder charge to get about 2400 fps. Much better. I don't think the lower speed will kill game any less deader.
You might find a threshold speed for comfort. As a reloader you can always back off the speed to below that level. My 9.3x74R Ruger No.1, which is a lightweight rifle, was a bit much when loaded with 286gr bullets at 2500 fps so I reduced the powder charge to get about 2400 fps. Much better. I don't think the lower speed will kill game any less deader.
My first .375 H&H was a CZ. My first reaction to shooting it turned out to be the model for the many people who shot it afterwards. "That's it?" Turns out a 10 1/2 pound .375 isn't a big deal, and with factory level 270 grain bullets can be described as mild. Heavier bullets and hotter loads are noticeably stiffer, but aren't going to kill you. I later got a Remington of similar weight and it is also no big deal. I have a M70 that isn't much over 8 pounds scoped and it is noticeably sharper in recoil. The CZ eventually got rebarrelled into a .375 Weatgerby and is in a completely different league now.
Moving up the ladder in the CZs to the .416 Rigby only needs one word to compare it to the .375. "Double". Just like a .375 has about double the recoil of a 30-06, the .416 likewise has double the recoil of a .375. You lose a lot of the shooting population when the rearward impulse is roughly equal to 4 30-06s going off at the same time. Some have a ear-splitting grin, some try but can't pull that look off, and the odd one acts like he's been shot. The overwhelmingly most common comment by shooters that try it for the first time was "Holy sh**". This level of recoil doesn't just punch you on the shoulder a bit, its going to move you around. So far I haven't seen anyone die from shooting one.
If you can break through the .416 barrier, the chances of being able keep on going are pretty good. You might have to learn how to shoot with muscle tension and becoming part of the system and accept that it is going to last for awhile. Its a bit like riding a bull; you either ride it out or get stomped by it. Many people have fired my .458 Lott, but my favorite comment went something like this.
"BOOM, aw I think I better try that again, I wasn't ready for that one. Click snick BOOM. Aw, I I I guess I was ready for the first one." I tried to convince him it was a reduced load; but he wasn't buying it. I've got to work on my poker face.
Moving up the ladder in the CZs to the .416 Rigby only needs one word to compare it to the .375. "Double". Just like a .375 has about double the recoil of a 30-06, the .416 likewise has double the recoil of a .375. You lose a lot of the shooting population when the rearward impulse is roughly equal to 4 30-06s going off at the same time. Some have a ear-splitting grin, some try but can't pull that look off, and the odd one acts like he's been shot. The overwhelmingly most common comment by shooters that try it for the first time was "Holy sh**". This level of recoil doesn't just punch you on the shoulder a bit, its going to move you around. So far I haven't seen anyone die from shooting one.
If you can break through the .416 barrier, the chances of being able keep on going are pretty good. You might have to learn how to shoot with muscle tension and becoming part of the system and accept that it is going to last for awhile. Its a bit like riding a bull; you either ride it out or get stomped by it. Many people have fired my .458 Lott, but my favorite comment went something like this.
"BOOM, aw I think I better try that again, I wasn't ready for that one. Click snick BOOM. Aw, I I I guess I was ready for the first one." I tried to convince him it was a reduced load; but he wasn't buying it. I've got to work on my poker face.
- Location
- In the shadows of the Rockies
I load my .458 WM Remington 798 with 500gr bullets at around 1900 fps. More than sufficient on Moose. If I load my .458 Lott Sako AV with 500gr bullets (prefer 300gr TSX at 2600 fps) I limit the speed also to about 1900 fps. Higher speeds aren't really necessary and I would hate to crack the stock.
Remington 798 .458 Win. Mag. with Leupold VX-2 1-4x20mm scope
Sako AV .458 Lott with Leupold VX-2 1-4x20mm scope
Remington 798 .458 Win. Mag. with Leupold VX-2 1-4x20mm scope
Sako AV .458 Lott with Leupold VX-2 1-4x20mm scope
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hometownhero
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Toon Town, Sk
You should try a 14# 6x45. Now that is easy to control lol. I would say it is similar to my cz 452 in 17hmr or a 22wmr. After getting a 7mm-08 I don't enjoy shooting my 7.5-8# 30-06 from a bench at all. Not a fan of recoil at all.
I've done a few range sessions with an 8 lb 375 H&H. I've noticed my form gets lax the more I shoot in the order of standing then bench and then prone.
What feels mild while standing feels firm at the bench and can get ouchie prone after about 20 rounds. A light gun with varying shoulder angle and less "give" as you move from standing to bench to prone.
Plus everyone has different tolerances for recoil/blast/noise. I have a couple of friends that refuse to shoot my gun again but it had to do with their tolerance and form when they first shot it.
What feels mild while standing feels firm at the bench and can get ouchie prone after about 20 rounds. A light gun with varying shoulder angle and less "give" as you move from standing to bench to prone.
Plus everyone has different tolerances for recoil/blast/noise. I have a couple of friends that refuse to shoot my gun again but it had to do with their tolerance and form when they first shot it.
hometownhero
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Toon Town, Sk
Dogleg;13092882 "BOOM said:
Yeah, it isn't that bad as a .458 Win, and with factory loads it was down-right mild. As a .458 Lott it sort of gets some traction.
*Mild is a relative term.
You might find a threshold speed for comfort. As a reloader you can always back off the speed to below that level. My 9.3x74R Ruger No.1, which is a lightweight rifle, was a bit much when loaded with 286gr bullets at 2500 fps so I reduced the powder charge to get about 2400 fps. Much better. I don't think the lower speed will kill game any less deader. [/QUOTE]
I have that same rifle and it gets more accurate the faster it's loaded....it's a tough compromise. Painful and accurate or comfortable and maybe don't hit vitals at 150 yards?
[/QUOTE]I have that same rifle and it gets more accurate the faster it's loaded....it's a tough compromise. Painful and accurate or comfortable and maybe don't hit vitals at 150 yards?
I haven't personally shot any big-bore stuff...yet. I've shot a couple of the standard magnum calibers, 7mm rem, .300 win, in a few different rifles but I think the most recoil I've felt to date was just last year when I was testing out my new Weatherby SA-08 with a synthetic stock. It is a very light shotgun, haven't weighed it yet but I'd guess it's well under 7lbs., so I brought a variety of ammo to feed it. A box of target loads went down the tube, then a half box of 3" steel goose loads, all went well. Then decided to load up 3 slugs, some Federal something-or-others.
Squeezed off the first one, WOW!!! Flinched off the second one, OWW!!! Unloaded the third one and said to myself, "Yep, it shoots slugs, test done."
Squeezed off the first one, WOW!!! Flinched off the second one, OWW!!! Unloaded the third one and said to myself, "Yep, it shoots slugs, test done."
I don't have any issues shooting full power loads of the bench with my .444 Marlin, .35 Whelen or .300 WSM but I do slip on the PAST recoil pad when developing loads for my .375 Ruger. The whole point of shooting off a bench is to see what the rifle can do so I put all the odds in my favor.
I remember patterning my 12 gauge with turkey loads off the bench, that wasn't much fun either!
I remember patterning my 12 gauge with turkey loads off the bench, that wasn't much fun either!
